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Post by acksurf on Jan 29, 2022 23:21:05 GMT
Bumping this thread. Curious as to whether people have made any adjustments to their muni holdings recently?
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Post by Chahta on Jan 30, 2022 0:44:01 GMT
None. But they are obviously sensitive to interest rates. Short term are acting a little better than IT.
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Post by nobhead on Jan 30, 2022 1:53:15 GMT
Bumping this thread. Curious as to whether people have made any adjustments to their muni holdings recently? Going to sell all of VWALX Monday. See the Buy, Sells, Why thread. Saw some others selling some of theirs there. acksurf , Chahta ,
Edit: I am still holding a large amount in PML and PMX muni's that I have bought at various times since 2013. Will watch them closely as rates rise. Rates have been falling for a long time so we will see how fast things happen as they go up. I am old enough to know what they were like in 1980.
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Post by fred495 on Jan 30, 2022 3:30:20 GMT
Bumping this thread. Curious as to whether people have made any adjustments to their muni holdings recently?
I am still holding NVHAX. Yes, it's down 1.6% YTD, but except for very small gains in bank loan funds, other bond fund categories are also down YTD.
If you are selling your muni funds, where, other than MM funds, are you investing the proceeds?
The bigger question is, are there any bond funds worth holding in 2022? So far, according to my small watch list, only RCTIX, a non-muni OEF, seems to be holding up fairly well in positive territory.
Thanks,
Fred
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Post by fishingrod on Jan 30, 2022 12:51:02 GMT
I haven't made a move with anything. Been watching, will buy more VWALX if/when it drops by around 7% off of the recent top. It is down by 4.89% from it's 52 week high now. It may not make it to 7% down without a real scare. And then the market may not let it get so down, very long, they may/will buy it up.
Including 2007-2009 bear market VWALX has declined more than 7% -five times since 2007.
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Post by acksurf on Jan 30, 2022 13:33:06 GMT
Bumping this thread. Curious as to whether people have made any adjustments to their muni holdings recently?
I am still holding NVHAX. Yes, it's down 1.6% YTD, but except for very small gains in bank loan funds, other bond fund categories are also down YTD.
If you are selling your muni funds, where, other than MM funds, are you investing the proceeds?
The bigger question is, are there any bond funds worth holding in 2022? So far, according to my small watch list, only RCTIX, a non-muni OEF, seems to be holding up fairly well in positive territory.
Thanks,
Fred
Yes, MM is building up. Rather than adding to munis I have put $ in Wellesley, a little in PIMCO CEFs and for the first time in 20 year iBonds. I have longer term munis so I am thinking I may shift into shorter term or just wait on the side lines with MM.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 15:00:42 GMT
I sold all VWIUX and VTMFX last week. Money went into VTIAX. I also sold the VSDGX in my Roth for good measure. Short and ultra-short funds have also been leaking steadily. That money went into VEIRX/MM.
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Post by acksurf on Jan 30, 2022 15:25:05 GMT
I sold all VWIUX and VTMFX last week. Money went into VTIAX. I also sold the VSDGX in my Roth for good measure. Short and ultra-short funds have also been leaking steadily. That money went into VEIRX/MM. VSGDX? Short Term Federal?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 16:02:10 GMT
[quote author=" acksurf" [/quote]VSGDX? Short Term Federal? [/quote] Yes. I know you only asked about municipal funds - sorry!
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Post by acksurf on Jan 30, 2022 16:41:13 GMT
VSGDX? Short Term Federal? [/quote] Yes. I know you only asked about municipal funds - sorry! [/quote][/div]
No, it's all good - curious as to what people have/where they're going to in place of munis.
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Post by win1177 on Jan 30, 2022 19:42:06 GMT
All our muni funds (VWALX, VWIUX, VMLUX) are slowly losing money now, as rates head up. I am to date just building cash, have not added to any of them, YET. If/ when rates get above 2% treasury yield (10 year), will consider starting to add. Cash, Muni’s, and regular bond funds seem to ALL be slowly losing value.
Win
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Post by sheryldell on Jan 31, 2022 20:14:55 GMT
I bought some FFRHX Fidelity Floating Rate as did some others here.
Thinking VWIAX is a compromise to not lose much going forward. Comments on VWIAX?
Also sold PGX which is a bond substitute I held for several years per Rick Ferri.
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Post by oldskeet on Feb 1, 2022 14:22:13 GMT
Hi guys, I am currently weighted at about 8% to municipals in my income sleeve. The two muni funds owned are FLAAX and NVHAX at about 4% each. At this time, I have no thoughts of trimming my muni allocation as both of these two funds are good producers of taxfree income.
For me, I look at these two municipal funds as milk cows (so to speack) and are they part of my income generating dairy herd. Since they currently offer good income production I plan to keep on, keeping on with them. I have no thoughts of selling or trimming my position in muni income at this time.
Old_Skeet
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Post by alvinthechipmunk on Feb 3, 2022 19:16:02 GMT
Bumping this thread. Curious as to whether people have made any adjustments to their muni holdings recently?
"So far, according to my small watch list, only RCTIX, a non-muni OEF, seems to be holding up fairly well in positive territory."
Thanks,
Fred
PRFRX up a fraction ytd. Floating Rate-Bank Loans. TRP.
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Post by Chahta on Feb 22, 2022 17:46:28 GMT
No adjustments yet, but I was thinking about selling one IT muni in my taxable account. I still want to hold it long term but could use the loss in my taxable account. Anyone else thinking this way? The problem is where to put it for 31 days. It would need to be held in cash or something like RPHIX.
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Post by anovice on Feb 22, 2022 19:05:48 GMT
No adjustments yet, but I was thinking about selling one IT muni in my taxable account. I still want to hold it long term but could use the loss in my taxable account. Anyone else thinking this way? The problem is where to put it for 31 days. It would need to be held in cash or something like RPHIX. Chahta, I assume the relevance to 31 days is to avoid a wash-sale and then repurchase the same fund. If want to realize the loss and assuming the fund is NMBAX or similar, how about another muni such as BSNIX, BMQIX or WITAX for 31 days (or longer). Of course, you always have the option of NVHAX.
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Post by Chahta on Feb 22, 2022 22:33:49 GMT
anovice, I am not sure another muni will pass the wash sale rule. I don't think muni to HY muni would work either.
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Post by fishingrod on Feb 23, 2022 0:57:50 GMT
The IRS is very vague in their determination of "substantially identical". Here is a good article.
" For example, if an investor sells the SPDR S&P 500 ETF (SPY) at a loss, they can immediately turn around and purchase the Vanguard S&P 500 ETF. Tax-loss harvesting has become increasingly popular as algorithmic trading and investment management services such as robo-advisors are able to tax loss harvest on your behalf automatically.
The rationale is that the two S&P 500 ETFs have different fund managers, different expense ratios, may replicate the underlying index using a different methodology, and may have different levels of liquidity in the market. Presently, the IRS does not deem this type of transaction as involving substantially identical securities and so it is allowed, although this may be subject to change in the future as the practice becomes more widespread."
I believe this is pushing it a little to far and would/could qualify as "Substantially Identical."
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Post by fishingrod on Feb 23, 2022 1:09:39 GMT
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Post by Chahta on Feb 23, 2022 2:42:03 GMT
It’s possible the rules are vague in order for the IRS to use their judgement on what constitutes a wash sale. By the time they rule it’s over. Too late to fight it.
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Post by anitya on Feb 23, 2022 7:09:58 GMT
stock and call options on it are considered substantially identical to each other for purposes of the wash sale rule, even though the economic outcome of each can be vastly different.
Is SPY and SSO substantially equivalent to each other?
IRS Pub 550 is not currently available at the IRS website as it is being revised.
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Post by Chahta on Feb 23, 2022 14:51:00 GMT
I discussed this with Schwab. A change in fund families is sufficient to prevent a wash sale. However they only report to the IRS. They do not make a determination unless it is the same exact fund bought/sold in 60 days. Pre-buying then selling is also a wash sale.
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Post by FD1000 on Feb 23, 2022 15:10:31 GMT
I never had any issues with wash sell even when I used very close/similar funds, think SPY/VOO and VTI.
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Post by Chahta on May 12, 2022 23:23:16 GMT
What is going on with muni bonds? Rates go down and munis go down. Is the coming recession the issue with them because revenues could suffer? I don't get the negative correlation with interest rates.
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Post by chang on May 13, 2022 1:09:04 GMT
What is going on with muni bonds? Rates go down and munis go down. Is the coming recession the issue with them because revenues could suffer? I don't get the negative correlation with interest rates. The chart of VWALX is hideous. I was waaaaay too late getting out, but thank God I don’t own that toxic waste anymore.
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Post by Chahta on May 13, 2022 2:12:55 GMT
In researching further I may have my answer. It is the redemptions hurting muni funds now. Not solely interest rates. It is my cash sitting in T bills hurting muni funds.
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Post by FD1000 on May 13, 2022 4:02:15 GMT
KISS. Trends tell me everything. I only hold uptrend funds and munis are on the doghouse for months now. I'm never sure what reasons caused the downtrend and in reality, I don't care.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 9:13:11 GMT
What is going on with muni bonds? Rates go down and munis go down. Is the coming recession the issue with them because revenues could suffer? I don't get the negative correlation with interest rates. The chart of VWALX is hideous. I was waaaaay too late getting out, but thank God I don’t own that toxic waste anymore. I hadn't looked at bond charts for awhile. That does look bad. I've learned that bond holders pay for inflation, so I imagine this is the main culprit. Since we are likely to have higher inflation for a few more years, might be best to steer clear. Sure there will be an opportunity at some time. Personally, I think inflation will cause more and more to come out of bonds and into stocks that can produce a relatively reliable stable income stream. Edit - Wow - just looked at BND. Guess it's better than losing double digits in purchasing power holding cash? Crazy times.
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Post by mnfish on May 13, 2022 11:31:25 GMT
"I'm never sure what reasons caused the downtrend and in reality, I don't care."
I don't care either. I own equal $ amounts of VWLAX, VWUIX and VWSUX purchased in 2016. They still provide what I bought them for, tax free interest payments to spend annually.
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Post by oldskeet on May 13, 2022 11:44:09 GMT
Old_Skeet has been adding to his muni fund positions (NVHAX & FLAAX) during the recent FOMC's jaw boning resulting in price compression of most fixed income funds. As I write FLAAX is off its 52 week high by about 18% and NVHAX about half that. For me, I buy income for income generation and when bond fund prices fall it simply means I can buy more shares in my bond funds for less money while I continue to enjoy the tax free income stream. But, I also believe there are those that would rather sell and do without the income benefit.
Years back I sold out of my muni income funds back in 2007 and 2008 Great Recession. As it turned out, I'd been better to have kept them. Now, in market declines I add to my good income generating positions over selling them. But, that is just me. I like getting monthly income distributions form my portfolio and have pretty much believed that asset values were at premium prices as we entered 2022. Since retirement, I built a sizeable cash position to take advantage on lower asset prices during market sell offs.
So guys, keep selling so I can continue to buy at better prices.
Old_Skeet
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