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PTY
Sept 29, 2021 18:58:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 18:58:11 GMT
I saw some folks bought PTY recently. My limit order to buy 100 PTY at 18.00 in IRA executed yesterday. Only other bonds I have now is as part of Vanguard Wellington. before I think about adding more...
From discussions I gathered it is from PIMCO, 7.8% dividend, dividend was cut recently, it is cef and at premium of 25% premium and div cut sounds negative.
What was the reason to buy it?
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Post by richardsok on Sept 29, 2021 20:00:22 GMT
People want income and are willing to pay for it.
NAV remains rock steady for PTY, but for some, coverage is a somewhat mysterious worry. All sorts of little-understood gears whirring about under the hood. If a CEF can get rock-star status for savvy management, this one is it.
PTY price has been dropping about 20% lately, cutting its massive 40% premium to a merely very large 24.
For some of us, that's a reason to buy such a desirable fund. For others, it's a reason not to.
..... or not yet.
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PTY
Sept 29, 2021 21:09:02 GMT
Post by xray on Sept 29, 2021 21:09:02 GMT
@waffle, PTY: Your: 1... From discussions I gathered it is from PIMCO, 7.8% dividend, dividend was cut recently, it is cef and at premium of 25% premium and div cut sounds negative. 2... What was the reason to buy it? ----------- 1... Any security that is at 25% "PREMIUM" and also " CUT" their dividend is really not worth discussing [IMHO]. With that said.... PTY is one of the funds that has a very good following on message boards. As the premium drops [was @ +52% at its high] Investors will buy PTY [and similar CEF's with huge dividends] because of the current dividends [for income without regard to performance] and their " Message Board following". Keep in mind that if/when a NAV is always collapsing [or going lower], the current [previous] dividend " cannot" be sustained. Dividends, in the case of PTY [$1.56/Yr to $1.4256/Yr " surprise" loss per share] , can be expected to continually fall until the NAV can be improved by Portfolio changes or a Manager change [IMHO]. Knowledgable traders and investors normally play any RO [rights offerings] by PTY to help correct the current MktPrc premium.... tinyurl.com/2yk65zsz 2... Reason is normally always tied to a great dividend that retiree's need to boost their cashflow to live on. If we have another crash [similar to 2008/2009 (or worse like 1929)], the invested money can be expected to be lost. If one buys PTY, it should [in my viewpoint] be 0-1% of portfolio.... One single opinion of the many I am sure.... Disclosure: Some of us do not currently have any position in PTY.... Live Long and Prosper....
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PTY
Sept 29, 2021 22:00:33 GMT
Post by steelpony10 on Sept 29, 2021 22:00:33 GMT
@waffle ,,
If you read posts long enough markets are always ready to collapse, everything is overvalued or in this case the premium is. “high”. Maybe everyone wants to invest in it like a well run high PE stock.
Once you accept your portfolio values will fluctuate all your life hopefully at an upward angle and that all investments have flaws other investment areas open up.
We’ve invested in PTY for income only, about 12 years ago now as well as other CEF’s. All I had to know was cash flow and who were considered the best houses in that area.
So with PTY right now 72/7+% you may get your initial investment back in about 10 years. If you have that timespan after that you’re collecting someone else’s money and yours is spent or is invested somewhere else. You’re giving up growth of principle which could be greater then 7%+. With us we took what we didn’t need and invested it monthly in growth indexes. Luckily we received a 10%+ return for that. We like that every dime we spend each month is replaced by CEF income (+SS) allowing all other investments (on reinvestment) to compound and hopefully grow in value. Twelve years so far. That’s our trade off. A percentage of investments with no principle growth. Sound familiar?
If you’re going to invest in a CEF for income I would suggest you choose a dollar amount of monthly or yearly income in excess to what you need to allow for distribution variances, a common occurrence, as caretakers manage the leveraged portfolio. Dividend cuts seems like a misleading term then which better describes equity income.
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PTY
Sept 30, 2021 15:04:41 GMT
Chahta likes this
Post by rhythmmethod on Sept 30, 2021 15:04:41 GMT
@waffle , Good points from xray . Perhaps his num3ers will reveal better possibilities than PTY I have not the need nor ability to debate it. steelpony10 also makes sense and is more in alignment with my small B&H % allocation of PTY to increase income. Here is the M* evaluation of PTY. It is ranked in the top 10% for the past several years (including YTD). Good luck with whatever you decide. - RM
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PTY
Sept 30, 2021 17:04:19 GMT
Post by xray on Sept 30, 2021 17:04:19 GMT
Your: Perhaps his num3ers will reveal better possibilities than PTY
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Looking at the current market and observing the analysts [experts] this morning, the market will be going "Lower" before going higher. "Current investing" is not in the cards. Current belief is that the high flyers will get hit bigtime [some panic selling] and could "drag down" some very good securities with it [if/when loss probability is believed to be happening]. Everyone knew that September is always a "DOWN Month" so why fight it....
Some of us have a "Goals & Objectives" requirement of "10%" Income "5%" CapGains for our yearly objectives [15% yearly minimum]. The last few years have been great years as the market has tripled our previous objectives. Many investors have done a lot better I am sure but they had to work hard for it. Today is one of those days that our 10% requirement for income makes us smile while we play the continuing game of up/down, down/up, up/down. Should the market go nowhere next year [down year with no CapGains available], we might have settle to settle for only 7%-10% cashflow [minimum] for 2022....
Comment: October should be a much better month than September....
Disclosure: No current buying/selling at the current time. Portfolio was adjusted the last few weeks...
Live Long and Prosper....
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PTY
Sept 30, 2021 18:39:19 GMT
Post by Fearchar on Sept 30, 2021 18:39:19 GMT
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PTY
Nov 15, 2021 4:27:19 GMT
Post by alvinthechipmunk on Nov 15, 2021 4:27:19 GMT
PTY 43% leveraged. "Run away and be very afraid."
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Post by yogibearbull on Nov 15, 2021 4:43:58 GMT
PTY 43% leveraged. "Run away and be very afraid." That 43% is debt as % of TOTAL assets. Debt as % of NET assets is 75.6%, or the leverage that the holder experiences is 1.756x (TOTAL asset/NET asset). www.cefconnect.com/fund/PTY
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Post by FD1000 on Nov 15, 2021 4:51:18 GMT
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Post by richardsok on Nov 15, 2021 12:13:34 GMT
Interesting you bumped up this PTY thread, FD. Just the other day I posted about PTY, and a couple of other Pimco CEFs, with the theory they may be sitting on very large cap gains going into "special dividend season". To repeat ............PTY's numbers, pulled from Page 22 of Pimco's yearly report are NII 1.32
Realized & Unreal Gains 1.78 = $3.10 / shDistributions
From NII 1.59
From ROC .14 = $1.73 / shAlso, I noted that PTY's 3-mo coverage up to Sept 30 has been about 112%, so there's been no shortfalls since the 7/22 Report. OTOH, can't get past the fact that PTY & PFL cut distributions a couple of months ago -- which could mean they expect more difficult earnings ahead. That's the one thing that keeps me from backing up the truck. -------------- Interesting no one would look into the numbers to either confirm or scoff that a Special Dividend could be in the cards .... or not. I even wrote to Pimco's CEF "Contact" page. To date, no response.
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PTY
Nov 15, 2021 16:02:46 GMT
Post by xray on Nov 15, 2021 16:02:46 GMT
richardsok, Your: 1... OTOH, can't get past the fact that PTY & PFL cut distributions a couple of months ago -- which could mean they expect more difficult earnings ahead. That's the one thing that keeps me from backing up the truck. 2... Interesting no one would look into the numbers to either confirm or scoff that a Special Dividend could be in the cards .... or not. I even wrote to Pimco's CEF "Contact" page. To date, no response. ---------- 1... When a dividend is "CUT", the outlook for the particular security in question (MktPrc wise) is now considered " negative" for the "short term".... 2... A "Special Dividend" after a cut becomes quite unlikely. If they do have a SD, we would then become worried for the "following year" as a [negative] earnings impairment for 2022.... Running the numb3rs on the computer [for what it is worth since I don't follow them] shows: PFL - definitely not PTY - slim chance One single opinion of the many I am sure.... Live Long and Prosper....
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Post by richardsok on Nov 15, 2021 16:30:21 GMT
Certainly must agree, X -- a special distribution a couple months after a cut is extremely unlikely -- yet perhaps you'll agree there's a paradox: why would Pimco cut, given their Annual Report income/outgo & the most recent 3-month coverages?
In the end, I'm not going to buy either PTY or PFL.
Nor will I further beat this topic to death.
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PTY
Nov 15, 2021 18:04:22 GMT
Post by rhythmmethod on Nov 15, 2021 18:04:22 GMT
Certainly must agree, X -- a special distribution a couple months after a cut is extremely unlikely -- yet perhaps you'll agree there's a paradox: why would Pimco cut, given their Annual Report income/outgo & the most recent 3-month coverages? In the end, I'm not going to buy either PTY or PFL. Nor will I further beat this topic to death. We can agree that purchases of PTY ~ 18.00 are looking pretty good...so far.
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Post by richardsok on Nov 15, 2021 20:42:13 GMT
Certainly must agree, X -- a special distribution a couple months after a cut is extremely unlikely -- yet perhaps you'll agree there's a paradox: why would Pimco cut, given their Annual Report income/outgo & the most recent 3-month coverages? In the end, I'm not going to buy either PTY or PFL. Nor will I further beat this topic to death. We can agree that purchases of PTY ~ 18.00 are looking pretty good...so far. You may well be right, RM. Didn't mean to suggest PTY was or wasn't a good buy at this point; my intent was to express agreement the chances of a special distribution this year appear slim. PTY and PFL may yet benefit from an oversold EOY rally when the dumb money is finished realizing its losses.
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PTY
Nov 15, 2021 20:48:52 GMT
Post by rhythmmethod on Nov 15, 2021 20:48:52 GMT
richardsok ,I’m certainly not thinking I did anything smart. One can usually not accuse me of overthinking 🥁😂. I just find a widget and a space and try to make them fit.
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PTY
Nov 16, 2021 3:26:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Chahta on Nov 16, 2021 3:26:08 GMT
Are CEFs required to distribute realized gains like OEFs? I can see distributions being cut since interest rates have been going down for a while. I can also see that once the monthly distributions are cut there could be some left-over $$ that need to be distributed.
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PTY
Nov 16, 2021 3:32:44 GMT
Post by yogibearbull on Nov 16, 2021 3:32:44 GMT
CEFs can retain some as UNII but I haven't seen limits on those clearly spelled out.
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Post by richardsok on Nov 20, 2021 0:51:04 GMT
New UNII numbers are in from Pimco. PDO is lapping the field with .48 and 160% 3-mo coverage. (Fiscal YTD a whopping 150%.)
Other decent positive UNII numbers are PGP with .21, PTY: .03 and PCM with .12.
The munis are pretty much all holding their own.
Investors should bear in mind these numbers shed little or no light on whether the funds are holding unrealized gains, of course.
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PTY
Nov 20, 2021 13:13:37 GMT
Post by Fearchar on Nov 20, 2021 13:13:37 GMT
I like to average the coverage ratios.
Yes; PDO is a standout and PGP too. However, PKO and PCM are also doing great.
PTY and PDI are doing pretty good too.
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Post by steelpony10 on Nov 20, 2021 13:24:18 GMT
I like to average the coverage ratios. Yes; PDO is a standout and PGP too. However, PKO and PCM are also doing great. PTY and PDI are doing pretty good too. PKO and PCI are now merged into PDI. The numbers are jumbled all the time but the monthly cash keeps flowing.
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PTY
Nov 20, 2021 14:05:39 GMT
Post by Fearchar on Nov 20, 2021 14:05:39 GMT
steelpony10 , ohh thanks; I knew about PCI merging into PDI, but had didn't know about PKO. Here is a snip from the PIMCO site. They had an announcement yesterday. The previously-announced contemplated reorganizations of each of the Fund and PIMCO Dynamic Credit and Mortgage Income Fund (“PCI”) with and into PIMCO Dynamic Income Fund (“PDI”) are currently expected to be consummated following the scheduled close of regular trading on the New York Stock Exchange (“NYSE”) on December 10, 2021, subject to PIMCO’s market outlook and operational considerations, the satisfaction of applicable regulatory requirements and customary closing conditions.
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PTY
Nov 20, 2021 14:12:22 GMT
Post by Fearchar on Nov 20, 2021 14:12:22 GMT
oh yeah; and here is the announcement text for PKO:
The previously-announced contemplated reorganizations of each of the Fund and PIMCO Income Opportunity Fund (“PKO”) with and into PIMCO Dynamic Income Fund (“PDI”) are currently expected to be consummated following the scheduled close of regular trading on the New York Stock Exchange (“NYSE”) on December 10, 2021, subject to PIMCO’s market outlook and operational considerations, the satisfaction of applicable regulatory requirements and customary closing conditions.
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Post by steelpony10 on Nov 20, 2021 21:03:24 GMT
@waffle , richardsok , xray , steelpony10 , rhythmmethod , Fearchar , alvinthechipmunk , yogibearbull , FD1000 , Chahta , I hope everyone does their own due diligence and just uses forums for ideas and forgets about taking sides. There’s good points and bad points to every investment but blended they can reduce some of the downside and of course blunt the upside as your own personalized mutual fund instead of an off the rack boilerplate one size fits all situation. Thinking everything else is trash and not keeping an open mind just makes successful all weather investing more difficult.
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Post by anitya on Nov 20, 2021 21:30:47 GMT
www.pimco.com/en-us/resources/product-resources/cef-press-releasesNew York, NY (November 19, 2021) – The previously-announced contemplated reorganizations of each of PIMCO Dynamic Credit and Mortgage Income Fund (“ PCI”) and PIMCO Income Opportunity Fund (“ PKO”) (NYSE: PKO) with and into PIMCO Dynamic Income Fund (“ PDI”) (NYSE: PDI) are currently expected to be consummated following the scheduled close of regular trading on the New York Stock Exchange (“NYSE”) on December 10, 2021, subject to PIMCO’s market outlook and operational considerations, the satisfaction of applicable regulatory requirements and customary closing conditions.
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Deleted
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PTY
Nov 20, 2021 23:27:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2021 23:27:35 GMT
@waffle , richardsok , xray , steelpony10 , rhythmmethod , Fearchar , alvinthechipmunk , yogibearbull , FD1000 , Chahta , I hope everyone does their own due diligence and just uses forums for ideas and forgets about taking sides. There’s good points and bad points to every investment but blended they can reduce some of the downside and of course blunt the upside as your own personalized mutual fund instead of an off the rack boilerplate one size fits all situations. Thinking everything else is trash and not keeping an open mind just makes successful investing more difficult. Also I have noticed, for the same stock, at same time, some top investors are buying it as cheap and others selling it as expensive. Market is made up of people reaching different conclusions based on same data and news. These forums help to know different opinions, and news and thinking that I have missed on my own. And for less experienced investors to learn from experiences of more experienced investors which has been very beneficial to me.
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PTY
Nov 21, 2021 21:53:49 GMT
Post by xray on Nov 21, 2021 21:53:49 GMT
@waffle, Your: Also I have noticed, for the same stock, at same time, [1] some top investors are buying it as cheap and others selling it as expensive. [2] Market is made up of people reaching different conclusions based on same data and news.
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1... We all have different methods of analyzing securities for investing [or selling]. None will be foolproof. Markets change, sector favorability changes, bad news, good news changes, etc. All of us use normally use the message boards to get further analysis clarification or substantiation of our current decisions before buying/selling ....
2... This a interesting viewpoint. We all read the same information but many of us "analyze" what we read differently. I believe that is because we sometimes have different goals and objectives [that guide our final decisions]....
Contrarian viewpoints normally make us "smarter" in either accepting or dismissing the viewpoints [sometimes with or without comment]....
One single opinion of the many I am sure....
Live Long and Prosper....
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