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Post by anovice on Mar 12, 2024 20:27:33 GMT
Chang, I also have started adding a little to foreign/ international. Added yesterday to VFWAX in wife’s account, added to VIAAX in my IRA. May add some more to International in my brokerage account soon. The difference in valuations in the US versus foreign looks like it has to “correct”. But time will tell, international has clearly underperformed for a long time. Win Win, Why VIAAX? Doesn't it have a 0.25% fee for each purchase and 0.25% fee for each redemption? |
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Post by win1177 on Mar 12, 2024 21:21:00 GMT
Yes it does, but I feel like you get “stronger” companies (wider moats, less risk, longer term growth outlooks) with VIAAX, when compared to a general stock index fund. This fund buys companies that have a minimum of seven years of dividend growth, as well as limiting the fund to less than 4% in any one holding, to reduce single stock “damage” when a company does poorly. I really do not plan to sell, it’s been a “foundational holding” for me.
Win
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Post by win1177 on Mar 12, 2024 21:28:37 GMT
Yes it does, but I feel like you get “stronger” companies (wider moats, less risk, longer term growth outlooks) with VIAAX, when compared to a general stock index fund. This fund buys companies that have a minimum of seven years of dividend growth, as well as limiting the fund to less than 4% in any one holding, to reduce single stock “damage” when a company does poorly. I really do not plan to sell, it’s been a “foundational holding” for me. Win Also, I forgot to mention the expense ratio is VERY, VERY low (0.16%), so I rationalize the added purchase/ sale 0.25% as a “cost of doing business” at Vanguard. Ideally, I’d love them to get rid of it! Win |
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Post by yogibearbull on Mar 12, 2024 21:33:31 GMT
ETF VIGI class of VIAAX has lower ER & no fees. It follows S&P Global Ex-U.S. Dividend Growers Index. investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/etfs/profile/vigiEdit/Add: VIGI AUM $6.00 billion, VIAAX AUM $358 million. In higher ER and additional fees, there is a message here by VG to the holders of VIAAX. |
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Post by anitya on Mar 12, 2024 22:24:55 GMT
Yes it does, but I feel like you get “stronger” companies (wider moats, less risk, longer term growth outlooks) with VIAAX, when compared to a general stock index fund. This fund buys companies that have a minimum of seven years of dividend growth, as well as limiting the fund to less than 4% in any one holding, to reduce single stock “damage” when a company does poorly. I really do not plan to sell, it’s been a “foundational holding” for me. Win Also, I forgot to mention the expense ratio is VERY, VERY low (0.16%), so I rationalize the added purchase/ sale 0.25% as a “cost of doing business” at Vanguard. Ideally, I’d love them to get rid of it! Win I made a cursory read of V website to learn about this 0.25% front and back load but could not find anything about it, except the fees itself. I did not know V charged this type of fees. I am a bit floored. please share more info on this. Look into the ETF class VIGI, I used to own but no longer do. If there are big redemptions from VIAAX, expect to receive capital gain distributions from VIGI as well. |
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Post by gman57 on Mar 12, 2024 23:25:50 GMT
Also, I forgot to mention the expense ratio is VERY, VERY low (0.16%), so I rationalize the added purchase/ sale 0.25% as a “cost of doing business” at Vanguard. Ideally, I’d love them to get rid of it! Win I made a cursory read of V website to learn about this 0.25% front and back load but could not find anything about it, except the fees itself. I did not know V charged this type of fees. I am a bit floored. please share more info on this. Look into the ETF class VIGI, I used to own but no longer do. If there are big redemptions from VIAAX, expect to receive capital gain distributions from VIGI as well. Yes, it charges a 0.25% on both buys and sells or exchanges into or out of this fund. That's about all it says in the prospectus also. They have a few funds like this. On the funds I've noticed it on they only charged the 0.25% on buys. This is the first one I've noticed they take a little cut both on the way in and the way out. ADD: Yes, it looks like the ETF version of this fund (VIGI) doesn't have any in/out fees. ADD: Yup, what YB said, VG is saying buy the ETF not the fund. |
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Post by anitya on Mar 12, 2024 23:55:12 GMT
Rather than charge a load fees to force people into an ETF, Vanguard themselves could convert the OEF into the ETF in a tax deferred manner. So, why the charade?
Vanguard are so preachy about expenses but they are no different from certain religious leaders.
I have a very low opinion about Vanguard management and Vanguard brokerage though I started my investment life with Vanguard funds, I currently only own VHCAX and am in the process of liquidating VWIGX with very low to no balance in it. Even VHCAX is not a significant amount. Of course, I continue to enjoy high 7-day yield of their MM funds.
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Post by yogibearbull on Mar 13, 2024 0:11:42 GMT
Vanguard has a big 401k/403b business and that is why it has to maintain its mutual fund/OEF platform, and these fees can be waived there.
It's for this reason alone that I didn't like the forced shifts from VG mutual fund a/c to VG brokerage a/c a couple of years ago. But that's done, water under the bridge.
Vanguard may have terrible, and only M-F, 8am-8pm, customer service, but it has cozy relationships with those who count. M* Analyst Report on VIAAX was by a M* "Director", not any M* analyst. In that puff piece, the purchase AND redemption fees are just noted in passing. On VG website, VG also glosses over the account maintenance fees - yes, those are EXTRA, #(iv), beyond the (i) ER, (ii) 0.25% purchase fee, (iii) 0.25% redemption fee (VG says that those are waived if one has millions, or signups for electronic delivery). VG has just become a fee monster and the outfit like M* just look the other way.
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sgra
Lieutenant
Posts: 57
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Post by sgra on Mar 13, 2024 2:39:36 GMT
In the case of VIGI vs. VIAAX, the mutual fund marginally beats the ETF per Portfolio Visualizer ( www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&sl=6CWg2gNCiFdOofV4Sge4Ph). Maybe that changes on multiple purchases over time, but the bottom line (to me) is that they are so close, buying either one is equivalent if you want to own that index. VIGI often runs at a small premium which may mitigate the buy/sell fee of the MF to some degree. For me, it boils down to convenience/preference of the vehicle (MF vs ETF). I own VIAAX and GSIHX in the international space. |
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Post by chang on Mar 13, 2024 6:36:30 GMT
Vanguard discloses very clearly the front/back end loads on VIAAX and VIHAX on their mutual fund lists, such as: investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/list/mutual-funds?managementstyle=index&assetclass=equity-region-international,equity yogibearbull has mentioned previously that Vanguard prefers people to buy VIGI and VYMI. Interesting observation that M* — which makes such a hoo-hah about fees and expenses generally — glosses over these loads in their assessment without so much as a “lookie here”. If they don’t want to offer the OEF versions, why do they? The back-end load is particularly weird. Since VG offers free OEF-to-ETF share class conversion, anyone wanting to sell VIAAX or VIHAX would logically convert to the ETF and then sell that with no fee. ( anitya I will move these posts to a separate thread later today.) (For all VG’s foibles, I like having an account because they do have some good funds.) |
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Post by win1177 on Mar 13, 2024 16:49:22 GMT
Called Vanguard today, and it turns out I can switch both of my VIAAX accounts (IRA and individual brokerage acts.) over to VIGI, tax free. I knew it would be tax free in the IRA, but wasn’t sure in the brokerage. It is, So started that process. Apparently it would become taxable if I tried to switch back, but zero chance of my doing that. So started the process.
Win
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Post by yogibearbull on Mar 13, 2024 17:57:01 GMT
win1177, only tax free exchange from VG OEF to VG ETF is possible. I think that this can be done online too. To reverse, you will have to SELL ETF & then buy OEF, so potential tax hits.
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Post by win1177 on Mar 13, 2024 18:27:03 GMT
win1177 , only tax free exchange from VG OEF to VG ETF is possible. I think that this can be done online too. To reverse, you will have to SELL ETF & then buy OEF, so potential tax hits. That’s what the Vanguard lady relayed to me on the phone. So I converted both accounts VIAXX over to ETF’s. Win |
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