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Post by retiredat48 on Feb 9, 2024 22:13:17 GMT
Posts moved from BSW thread (too many posts)
Sold some SCHD and bought with the proceeds IWM at the close. SCHD has been going nowhere YTD and I see IWM looking more positive short term. Since I own schd I was curious: since Nov 2023 bottom, I get SCHD as +15%.............................IWM up +22%. I wouldn't call SCHD going nowhere. And it is a high dividend payer as the primary investment mode. Sure, small caps have FINALLY had a decent short term run, but seems completely different type of investment. Note I own both small cap funds and divy payers. R48 |
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Post by Norbert on Feb 9, 2024 22:45:39 GMT
Sold some SCHD and bought with the proceeds IWM at the close. SCHD has been going nowhere YTD and I see IWM looking more positive short term. True, but I think it's challenging to time equity class swings. Relative underperformance of SCHD for a short period might be an opportunity to increase exposure, not decrease. You know, the "reversion to the mean argument". I'll get back to you at the end of the year with a definitive opinion about 2024 performance. |
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Post by archer on Feb 10, 2024 0:16:01 GMT
Sold some SCHD and bought with the proceeds IWM at the close. SCHD has been going nowhere YTD and I see IWM looking more positive short term. Since I own schd I was curious: since Nov 2023 bottom, I get SCHD as +15%.............................IWM up +22%. I wouldn't call SCHD going nowhere. And it is a high dividend payer as the primary investment mode. Sure, small caps have FINALLY had a decent short term run, but seems completely different type of investment. Note I own both small cap funds and divy payers. R48 SCHD isn't completely without merit, but it is lacking what I am wanting for my short term PF. YTD it lags SPY, and has been pretty sideways. I do like it's AD line though which bodes well for the future. I will continue to watch it. |
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Post by Chahta on Feb 10, 2024 0:49:38 GMT
archer : "YTD SCHD lags SPY". Yes, SCHD value stocks are not doing real well. I wonder if it's because of a possible recession? But it was up last year and YTD. I own SCHD and never expected or assumed it could lead SPY. SPY has the Mag 7. I prefer to "make money the old-fashioned way. I earn it." Why would anyone own SCHD and SPY only to compete with each other? Just double SPY. I am mostly an Indexer for the equity portion of my portfolio. So it's SCHD + SCHX (SPY) for 30%, because they complement each I think. I respect your posts archer , but this one makes no sense to me, sorry.
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Post by archer on Feb 10, 2024 2:07:38 GMT
My SCHD sale obviously isn't winning a popularity contest.  I know SCHD has a purpose for which it does well in many a PF. when I originally bought it, like many buy's regardless of what they are designed to do, I looked for relative strength compared to SPY. If it isn't beating SPY I might as well just invest in the broad market. When I bought it in 2022 it's relative strength was better. For my approach, I really should have sold it long ago, but sometimes I hang on to funds past their usefulness. I just expect for the time being SCHD will be an opportunity loss. But hey, I've been wrong before, and I'm sure to make some bad calls in the future! We'll see. |
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Post by kevindow on Feb 10, 2024 2:24:01 GMT
CGDV, which is technically a LCB fund, has a portfolio centroid right at the junction of LCV and LCB. If one wants LCV exposure, CGDV has plenty, and gets my vote over SCHD.
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mrc
Lieutenant
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Post by mrc on Feb 10, 2024 3:47:47 GMT
Wow! Seeing you post after a long time Kevindow.
Feeling nostalgic remembering good old days of vibrant M* forums. :-)
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Post by retiredat48 on Feb 10, 2024 4:48:06 GMT
CGDV, which is technically a LCB fund, has a portfolio centroid right at the junction of LCV and LCB. If one wants LCV exposure, CGDV has plenty, and gets my vote over SCHD. Wow, post number one...first forum post, kevindow. Welcome over here. R48 |
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Post by retiredat48 on Feb 10, 2024 5:01:46 GMT
CGDV, which is technically a LCB fund, has a portfolio centroid right at the junction of LCV and LCB. If one wants LCV exposure, CGDV has plenty, and gets my vote over SCHD. Wow, post number one...first forum post, kevindow. Welcome over here. R48 Edit to add: I checked out CGDV. Has a very good one year return on charts vs SCHD. But here's my take. Schd CGDV 0.06% 0.33 Expense ratio 3.53% 1.65% M* SEC Yield 13% 22% tech stocks --------------------------------------------------------- I note CGDV, great last year, was due owning high techs such as microsoft/broadcom/apple/Meta. I own (deep value) SCHD almost as a bond substitute during ZIRP. I wanted the much higher yield. I own as my largest holding FSPTX High Tech for the high growers. That combo gives me what I want. High growth and the SCHD divy goes to help meet annual RMD distributions. Of course if tech stumbles and value stocks begin to shine, SCHD will then be the winner. To me, these two funds, CGDV and SCHD are not the same and have different objectives. Good day... R48 |
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Post by bigseal on Feb 10, 2024 18:27:35 GMT
I would never buy SCHD. The process for stock selection always seemed flawed to me. Would much rather own VOO. And even if I wanted to own a value ETF, I wouldn’t focus exclusively on dividend payers. My huge position in BRK-A, first purchased in 1978, provides a reliable ballast in tough times.
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Post by Norbert on Feb 10, 2024 20:30:15 GMT
I would never buy SCHD. The process for stock selection always seemed flawed to me. Would much rather own VOO. And even if I wanted to own a value ETF, I wouldn’t focus exclusively on dividend payers. My huge position in BRK-A, first purchased in 1978, provides a reliable ballast in tough times. Could you elaborate? Why does SCHD's stock selection process seem flawed to you? TIA. |
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Post by Chahta on Feb 10, 2024 21:12:12 GMT
Again, comparing SCHD to a S&P500 fund, like CGDV and SPY, is apples and oranges. If one wants TR then pick a fund to get max TR.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2024 21:29:00 GMT
Again, comparing SCHD to a S&P500 fund, like CGDV and SPY, is apples and oranges. If one wants TR then pick a fund to get max TR. What fund will give me max TR? |
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Post by rhythmmethod on Feb 10, 2024 23:31:39 GMT
Again, comparing SCHD to a S&P500 fund, like CGDV and SPY, is apples and oranges. If one wants TR then pick a fund to get max TR. What fund will give me max TR? FSELX - I can predict the past with amazing accuracy! |
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Post by Broozer on Feb 11, 2024 1:05:59 GMT
Again, comparing SCHD to a S&P500 fund, like CGDV and SPY, is apples and oranges. If one wants TR then pick a fund to get max TR. Agree, I don't get the discussion here. I have SCHD just for the divvies, which is its stated purpose. I don't pay much attention to the share price or its performance vs. the total market.
SPY and total market funds are different animals from SCHD. If one is in the accumulation stage, then SCHD is probably not the best for you. As I recall (it's been several years since I've looked) SCHD's TR is usually less than the total market, which isn't surprising.
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Post by archer on Feb 11, 2024 6:58:24 GMT
It is true that SCHD is a value fund, and it is true that it pays a nice div, so people often buy it for those strengths. However having those as a specific focus, doesn't rule it out as a good total return fund during times when it excels as such.
I don't think it really matters what an investor compares it to. If an investor is interested in a fund, why not compare it to funds already owned, whatever they might be, or to a broad benchmark? In 2022 it fit the bill pretty well for a total return fund with a moderate volatility. One of the reasons it was popular, showing up in articles and Youtube vids, wasn't that it was a value fund paying a div. It was getting a lot of press because it not only paid a nice div, but also had a good return compared to an otherwise declining stock market, which BTW can be represented nicely by SPY.
Bottom line, why let fund founders dictate why we buy their funds if we see a better use for them? Why exclude them when they are excelling outside their box and are filling other boxes? It would be different if we are not able to sell them later when conditions change, but we can buy and sell funds with great ease in today's market.
When I posted my sell of SCHD in the BS&W thread, I didn't want to go into great detail as to why, so I will add another reason. I wanted to buy some IWM and I had to sell something in order to do so. In the account SCHD resides, I hold 2 bond funds, 2 allocation funds, and one other equity div fund. All things considered, SCHD got the short straw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2024 14:37:22 GMT
VTCLX, Vanguard Tax Managed Capital Appreciation:
12.76% 10-YR Annualized Return
SCHD:
11.63% 10-YR Annualized Return
The Vanguard fund de-emphasizes dividend paying stocks.
SCHD emphasizes dividend paying stocks.
I'm surprised returns are that similar.
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Post by steelpony10 on Feb 11, 2024 15:03:46 GMT
Using Portfolio Visualizer which sets at 2011-2024, I plugged in SCHD, VTI, VOO and one of my closed end sector funds from a taxable account BME.
They all have similar results over that period of a good and the present choppy or poor market. So you can have more cap gains and less yield with increased volatility due to more market dependence or more cash flow with less volatility.
My experience tells me over that period anyway it was a toss up over that 12 years with future results as always unknown. My solution going back to the near beginning of my investment life was to separate the two. So a part for pure growth where any selling doesn’t affect cash flow as much and an income section expecting little cap gains but manipulating more dependable cash flow as needs change. Cap gains being less predictable over time then becomes a second source of income.
Depending on your risk perimeters how about SCHD as part of your income section and a growth OEF, something like VUG or individual stocks as a part of a growth section? If TR means a balanced fund that to me is the worse option, too much market dependence, small yields and you can’t liquidate shares without adversely hurting growth or yield.
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Post by Broozer on Feb 11, 2024 15:33:53 GMT
It is true that SCHD is a value fund, and it is true that it pays a nice div, so people often buy it for those strengths. However having those as a specific focus, doesn't rule it out as a good total return fund during times when it excels as such. I don't think it really matters what an investor compares it to. If an investor is interested in a fund, why not compare it to funds already owned, whatever they might be, or to a broad benchmark? In 2022 it fit the bill pretty well for a total return fund with a moderate volatility. One of the reasons it was popular, showing up in articles and Youtube vids, wasn't that it was a value fund paying a div. It was getting a lot of press because it not only paid a nice div, but also had a good return compared to an otherwise declining stock market, which BTW can be represented nicely by SPY. Bottom line, why let fund founders dictate why we buy their funds if we see a better use for them? Why exclude them when they are excelling outside their box and are filling other boxes? It would be different if we are not able to sell them later when conditions change, but we can buy and sell funds with great ease in today's market. When I posted my sell of SCHD in the BS&W thread, I didn't want to go into great detail as to why, so I will add another reason. I wanted to buy some IWM and I had to sell something in order to do so. In the account SCHD resides, I hold 2 bond funds, 2 allocation funds, and one other equity div fund. All things considered, SCHD got the short straw. When I bought SCHD three years ago when I retired, moving from SWTSX (total market) I compared it to other dividend funds. The criteria I use for anything: Inception date, size, ER, how does it compare to peers for one, five, ten years?
SPY, VTSAX, etc. are not peers. |
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Post by retiredat48 on Feb 11, 2024 17:13:19 GMT
Using Portfolio Visualizer which sets at 2011-2024, I plugged in SCHD, VTI, VOO and one of my closed end sector funds from a taxable account BME. They all have similar results over that period of a good and the present choppy or poor market. So you can have more cap gains and less yield with increased volatility due to more market dependence or more cash flow with less volatility. My experience tells me over that period anyway it was a toss up over that 12 years with future results as always unknown. My solution going back to the near beginning of my investment life was to separate the two. So a part for pure growth where any selling doesn’t affect cash flow as much and an income section expecting little cap gains but manipulating more dependable cash flow as needs change. Cap gains being less predictable over time then becomes a second source of income. Depending on your risk perimeters how about SCHD as part of your income section and a growth OEF, something like VUG or individual stocks as a part of a growth section? If TR means a balanced fund that to me is the worse option, too much market dependence, small yields and you can’t liquidate shares without adversely hurting growth or yield. I separate the growthy stuff from higher income funds. So I can deal with each one independently. As posted for me, the example is SCHD combined with FSPTX Fidelity High Tech Fund, a core holding owned since fund inception several decades ago. Would post a chart of FSPTX but the y-axis would go way above any computer screens! R48 |
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Post by Chahta on Feb 12, 2024 13:18:06 GMT
Again, comparing SCHD to a S&P500 fund, like CGDV and SPY, is apples and oranges. If one wants TR then pick a fund to get max TR. What fund will give me max TR? I should qualify, max TR (over income) for your personal preference. I suppose SCHD could provide that but not very tax efficiently. Most IRA money will end up on a taxable account or be consumed at some point. My main thought is I would not pick a fund hoping it would duplicate another fund. Have a reason for buying each fund. |
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Post by anitya on Feb 12, 2024 23:19:20 GMT
My SCHD sale obviously isn't winning a popularity contest. I know SCHD has a purpose for which it does well in many a PF. when I originally bought it, like many buy's regardless of what they are designed to do, I looked for relative strength compared to SPY. If it isn't beating SPY I might as well just invest in the broad market. When I bought it in 2022 it's relative strength was better. For my approach, I really should have sold it long ago, but sometimes I hang on to funds past their usefulness. I just expect for the time being SCHD will be an opportunity loss. But hey, I've been wrong before, and I'm sure to make some bad calls in the future! We'll see. Bold and highlight is for emphasis. I completely understand your sale. You know when I sold my SCHD and what I invested the proceeds in. You are not alone in lingering too long in bad relationships! |
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Post by bigseal on Feb 12, 2024 23:45:59 GMT
Using Portfolio Visualizer which sets at 2011-2024, I plugged in SCHD, VTI, VOO and one of my closed end sector funds from a taxable account BME. They all have similar results over that period of a good and the present choppy or poor market. So you can have more cap gains and less yield with increased volatility due to more market dependence or more cash flow with less volatility. My experience tells me over that period anyway it was a toss up over that 12 years with future results as always unknown. My solution going back to the near beginning of my investment life was to separate the two. So a part for pure growth where any selling doesn’t affect cash flow as much and an income section expecting little cap gains but manipulating more dependable cash flow as needs change. Cap gains being less predictable over time then becomes a second source of income. Depending on your risk perimeters how about SCHD as part of your income section and a growth OEF, something like VUG or individual stocks as a part of a growth section? If TR means a balanced fund that to me is the worse option, too much market dependence, small yields and you can’t liquidate shares without adversely hurting growth or yield. I separate the growthy stuff from higher income funds. So I can deal with each one independently. As posted for me, the example is SCHD combined with FSPTX Fidelity High Tech Fund, a core holding owned since fund inception several decades ago. Would post a chart of FSPTX but the y-axis would go way above any computer screens! R48 Maybe you should define “similar”. Since SCHD’s inception to the present, it has returned 12.66% annually as compared with 13.95% for VOO over the same time period. On a $10,000 initial investment, you would have more than $6,000 more in VOO as compared with SCHD. On a large portfolio that percentage difference over time is very substantial. |
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Post by rhythmmethod on Feb 13, 2024 2:46:37 GMT
I have trouble understanding the debate here. If SCHD is being compared to S&P, you will likely underperform on a total return basis. If SCHD fills a large value/income portion in combination with LCG (rebalanced), you will likely outperform S&P and collect a larger dividend. Debating positions out of context with what else one holds is a rather fruitless discussion. Otherwise, carry on. Stay well, - RM
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Post by chang on Feb 13, 2024 12:44:43 GMT
I have trouble understanding the debate here. If SCHD is being compared to S&P, you will likely underperform on a total return basis. If SCHD fills a large value/income portion in combination with LCG (rebalanced), you will likely outperform S&P and collect a larger dividend. Debating positions out of context with what else one holds is a rather fruitless discussion. Otherwise, carry on. Stay well, - RM SCHD is beating RSP (S&P500 equal weighted ETF) over the last three years. Of course, SCHD lags the S&P500 itself - nothing can touch the Magnificent Seven. I agree with rm. |
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Post by mnfish on Feb 13, 2024 14:11:15 GMT
Maybe you should define “similar”. Since SCHD’s inception to the present, it has returned 12.66% annually as compared with 13.95% for VOO over the same time period. On a $10,000 initial investment, you would have more than $6,000 more in VOO as compared with SCHD. On a large portfolio that percentage difference over time is very substantial. That difference has all come in the last year. Why not own both? |
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Post by retiredat48 on Feb 13, 2024 21:33:21 GMT
+1...Yes, I separate the growthy stuff from higher income funds. So I can deal with each one independently. As posted for me, the example is SCHD combined with FSPTX Fidelity High Tech Fund, a core holding owned since fund inception several decades ago. Would post a chart of FSPTX but the y-axis would go way above any computer screens! R48 . Since SCHD’s inception to the present, it has returned 12.66% annually as compared with 13.95% for VOO over the same time period. On a $10,000 initial investment, you would have more than $6,000 more in VOO as compared with SCHD. On a large portfolio that percentage difference over time is very substantial. Perhaps you are referring to the word "similar" used in steelpony's post. But for me, looking at your comment, it is easy in hindsight to perhaps show a similar fund that has slightly better performance. In fact, I don't fret that my fund choices may not be the top performer over time periods. I just don't fuss with this anymore at my age. Given about 20,000 no-load mutual funds/etfs exist, it is quite a challenge to have ones portfolio all in the absolute top performing funds. R48 |
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Post by bigseal on Feb 14, 2024 10:35:35 GMT
Maybe you should define “similar”. Since SCHD’s inception to the present, it has returned 12.66% annually as compared with 13.95% for VOO over the same time period. On a $10,000 initial investment, you would have more than $6,000 more in VOO as compared with SCHD. On a large portfolio that percentage difference over time is very substantial. Perhaps you are referring to the word "similar" used in steelpony's post. But for me, looking at your comment, it is easy in hindsight to perhaps show a similar fund that has slightly better performance. In fact, I don't fret that my fund choices may not be the top performer over time periods. I just don't fuss with this anymore at my age. Given about 20,000 no-load mutual funds/etfs exist, it is quite a challenge to have ones portfolio all in the absolute top performing funds. R48 You are correct regarding Steelpony. |
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