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Post by yogibearbull on Dec 27, 2023 13:57:08 GMT
Covered are the US (up to 10% foreign), diversified (11-39% foreign), and global ( >= 40% foreign) moderate/global allocation/balanced funds. Excluded are Multi-Asset funds (M* calls them "supporting"; it's not a M* Category yet) and the TDFs (with glide-path allocations). www.morningstar.com/funds/best-balanced-funds"After suffering one of their worst downfalls on record in 2022, balanced funds bounced back in 2023. The Morningstar US Moderate Target Allocation Index, which resembles a typical diversified balanced fund, gained more than 15% for the year to date through mid-December, and despite continued pessimism from some market observers, the outlook isn’t as grim as some soothsayers say....." |
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Post by Karen on Dec 27, 2023 14:19:12 GMT
Covered are the US (up to 10% foreign), diversified (11-39% foreign), and global ( >= 40% foreign) moderate/global allocation/balanced funds. Excluded are Multi-Asset funds (M* calls them "supporting"; it's not a M* Category yet) and the TDFs (with glide-path allocations). www.morningstar.com/funds/best-balanced-funds"After suffering one of their worst downfalls on record in 2022, balanced funds bounced back in 2023. The Morningstar US Moderate Target Allocation Index, which resembles a typical diversified balanced fund, gained more than 15% for the year to date through mid-December, and despite continued pessimism from some market observers, the outlook isn’t as grim as some soothsayers say....." Thank you for posting this article. Taking a look at the M* US Focused Balanced Fund Medalists on the list: The inclusion of a relatively terrible fund like MTRIX coupled with the exclusion of FBALX from this list, one of the very best funds by any measure, renders it virtually useless to a knowledgeable investor, other than possibly as for use as a scoping tool. To their credit, they at least did list FPURX in lieu of FBALX. |
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Post by rhythmmethod on Dec 27, 2023 15:38:46 GMT
Covered are the US (up to 10% foreign), diversified (11-39% foreign), and global ( >= 40% foreign) moderate/global allocation/balanced funds. Excluded are Multi-Asset funds (M* calls them "supporting"; it's not a M* Category yet) and the TDFs (with glide-path allocations). www.morningstar.com/funds/best-balanced-funds"After suffering one of their worst downfalls on record in 2022, balanced funds bounced back in 2023. The Morningstar US Moderate Target Allocation Index, which resembles a typical diversified balanced fund, gained more than 15% for the year to date through mid-December, and despite continued pessimism from some market observers, the outlook isn’t as grim as some soothsayers say....." Thanks, yogibearbull ! I agree with Karen that this is not that deep a dive. However, it makes me MORE aware of the underperformance of VWIAX, which is not on the list. I do expect it to do better this year if rates come down. I'm pondering exchanging it for VGWAX and some of whatever the coin toss @chang picks as a vanilla bond fund. The other growth oriented balanced funds are less appealing to mer as I hold a lot in PRWAX and individual MSFT, AAPL, AMZN (which I've been trimming) and some VUG and MGK. I'm open to thoughts. - TIA - yogibearbull, |
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Post by yogibearbull on Dec 27, 2023 15:55:08 GMT
I checked and omission of FBALX from the list wasn't accidental. The list included only Gold, Silver, Bronze rated funds. M* downgraded FBALX to Neutral (from Bronze) in 2019, a long time ago!
Looking at M* Reports in the Archives, M*'s issue is lots of portfolio manager changes. Fund has a large list of PMs (11; it's almost a holding pool of Fido managers that didn't succeed with their own funds, but Fido likes to keep them) and someone is always coming or going. Now, the lead manager has also changed.
FBALX 5* Rating means that it has performed well in the group, but the Analyst Rating of Neutral shows M*'s skepticism. I have noted elsewhere that FBALX is among the more aggressive moderate-allocation funds (nominal 50-70%). This shows in its higher volatility and higher effective-equity.
It's a good moderate-allocation fund. M* ratings/evaluations should count only in the initial fund screening. But if you have done due diligence and know what you own, you should be comfortable with your decisions.
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Post by Karen on Dec 27, 2023 16:55:14 GMT
Thanks for the additional comments.
FWIW, digging deeper inside the M* 5* rating, FBALX has done VERY WELL, pretty much ALWAYS at the top of its category for as long as we can remember (save 2016 and 2022), and that would be since its inception in 1986, when we first bought it.
IOHO, it is one of a select few GREAT Moderate Allocation funds and the perfect companion to PRWCX in anyone's portfolio. They are both as close to "Set it and forget it" (think Wedge-O-Matic) Allocation funds available.
Years
1/3/5/10
Rank in Category
5%/11%/4%/4%
We are aware that FBALX has a M* Neutral rating and we are aware of what that means. We are however not aware of any bona fide reason for M*'s Neutral rating, especially given what 2024 appears to hold in store.
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Post by Mustang on Dec 27, 2023 17:05:59 GMT
Covered are the US (up to 10% foreign), diversified (11-39% foreign), and global ( >= 40% foreign) moderate/global allocation/balanced funds. Excluded are Multi-Asset funds (M* calls them "supporting"; it's not a M* Category yet) and the TDFs (with glide-path allocations). www.morningstar.com/funds/best-balanced-funds"After suffering one of their worst downfalls on record in 2022, balanced funds bounced back in 2023. The Morningstar US Moderate Target Allocation Index, which resembles a typical diversified balanced fund, gained more than 15% for the year to date through mid-December, and despite continued pessimism from some market observers, the outlook isn’t as grim as some soothsayers say....." Thanks, yogibearbull ! I agree with Karen that this is not that deep a dive. However, it makes me MORE aware of the underperformance of VWIAX, which is not on the list. I do expect it to do better this year if rates come down. I'm pondering exchanging it for VGWAX and some of whatever the coin toss @chang picks as a vanilla bond fund. The other growth oriented balanced funds are less appealing to mer as I hold a lot in PRWAX and individual MSFT, AAPL, AMZN (which I've been trimming) and some VUG and MGK. I'm open to thoughts. - TIA - yogibearbull , VWIAX is not on the list because it is a conservative-allocation fund (30-50% Stock). The article focuses on moderate-allocation funds ( 50-70% stock). I was glad to see both of my moderate-allocation funds are on the list.
As far as the conservative-allocation category goes VWIAX was in the top 7% in 2022. And the bottom 9% in 2023. So it might not have made a conservative-allocation list either. I had never seen such an extreme change in its performance before. It kept to its investment strategy but 2023 was not a good year for bonds and value stocks. But, like the article states, balanced funds are not for the short-term. And VWIAX is an income fund with a little growth. It is best used in portfolios where a retiree is making withdrawals.
I agree that it should do better when the rates come down.
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Post by chang on Dec 27, 2023 18:10:31 GMT
rhythmmethod My problem with VGWAX is 1) Actively managed funds can get ugly in taxable. I’ve woken up next to one too many on a December XD morning and wondered what the hell I’d been drinking. 2) Dividend paying foreign funds should be in taxable, so you can claim a credit on foreign taxes paid. Hence, holding VGWAX in tax deferred you lose this ability. 3) Re Vanguard’s Global Wellington & Wellesley - *inexplicably* Vanguard does not break out foreign taxes for these funds in your 1099. Vanguard is really weird about this. (There’s another thread on this forum about this issue- let me know if you’re interested and I’ll find it.) Lastly, I’ve just got no use for balanced / allocation funds. So VGWAX wouldn’t be my choice. PS: for Foreign LV in taxable, I’m liking SCHY, FIVA, DFIV. Probably also AVIV and VIGI but I haven’t looked at them recently. PPS: Bond fund to rollover upcoming T-bills into — dunno yet, probably FTBFX since the first T-bill maturing is at Fido. Next one is at VG…..
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Post by rhythmmethod on Dec 27, 2023 18:21:46 GMT
rhythmmethod My problem with VGWAX is 1) Actively managed funds can get ugly in taxable. I’ve woken up next to one too many on a December XD morning and wondered what the hell I’d been drinking. 2) Dividend paying foreign funds should be in taxable, so you can claim a credit on foreign taxes paid. Hence, holding VGWAX in tax deferred you lose this ability. 3) Re Vanguard’s Global Wellington & Wellesley - *inexplicably* Vanguard does not break out foreign taxes for these funds in your 1099. Vanguard is really weird about this. (There’s another thread on this forum about this issue- let me know if you’re interested and I’ll find it.) Lastly, I’ve just got no use for balanced / allocation funds. So VGWAX wouldn’t be my choice. I only hold managed funds of any type in IRAs. I would lose the tax-deferred advantage either way with VGWAX. I may change my tune on balanced funds, but currently, my very modest position is acceptable to: 1.) Monitor volatility. 2. Rebalancing between bonds and equities: I would do it but with less discipline most likely. 3. They remind me of the other 79% of my self-managed portfolio success. This year, I have handily beaten the balanced benchmark. Probably, the best idea is to sit on my hands and ponder whether to hold the balanced funds at all. I can always add to SCHY if I get the foreign itch. - Thanks! |
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Post by chang on Dec 27, 2023 18:26:28 GMT
rhythmmethod In that case, why not use VWENX in your IRA to satisfy your thirst for a good, valuey allocation fund, and get some Foreign LV in taxable via an ETF? That way you capture the foreign tax credit AND maintain tax efficiency.
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Post by rhythmmethod on Dec 27, 2023 23:07:38 GMT
rhythmmethod In that case, why not use VWENX in your IRA to satisfy your thirst for a good, valuey allocation fund, and get some Foreign LV in taxable via an ETF? That way you capture the foreign tax credit AND maintain tax efficiency. That is EXACTLY what I already have ;-) I ALWAYS want to tinker and it usually makes it stinker - 😆 (Also holding a smaller amount of VWIAX, thus my post). |
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Post by yogibearbull on Jan 10, 2024 14:01:18 GMT
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Post by racqueteer on Jan 10, 2024 14:51:40 GMT
All they really needed was for the bond components not to be a constant drag. I'm just a little surprised the headwinds didn't last longer and weren't as severe as they could have been.
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Post by Broozer on Jan 24, 2024 14:41:25 GMT
Janus Balanced, JABAX, not even mentioned? Check it out.
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Post by yogibearbull on Jan 24, 2024 15:03:47 GMT
Broozer , I am a long time holder of JABAX through Schwab DAF. Janus as fund family has gone through very difficult times, and now it is UK-based Janus Henderson/ JHG (2017- ). But it has remained an option within the Schwab DAF through all that, so it has done fine. Schwab DAF is known to switch underperforming funds within its short fund lineup.
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Post by Broozer on Jan 24, 2024 15:34:33 GMT
Broozer , I am a long time holder of JABAX through Schwab DAF. Janus as fund family has gone through very difficult times, and now it is UK-based Janus Henderson/ JHG (2017- ). But it has remained an option within the Schwab DAF through all that, so it has done fine. Schwab DAF is known to switch underperforming funds within its short fund lineup. yogibearbull , Okay, I was wondering if JABAX was being overlooked; I've had it since 2018. I've have had various Janus funds since the mid-'90s. I don't remember, but I think I dropped whatever I had when they were having problems with the SEC (?) whenever it was.
For anyone else interested: JABAX goes back to 1992 and, overall, has done well since.
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Post by racqueteer on Jan 24, 2024 19:36:46 GMT
Broozer , I am a long time holder of JABAX through Schwab DAF. Janus as fund family has gone through very difficult times, and now it is UK-based Janus Henderson/ JHG (2017- ). But it has remained an option within the Schwab DAF through all that, so it has done fine. Schwab DAF is known to switch underperforming funds within its short fund lineup. yogibearbull , Okay, I was wondering if JABAX was being overlooked; I've had it since 2018. I've have had various Janus funds since the mid-'90s. I don't remember, but I think I dropped whatever I had when they were having problems with the SEC (?) whenever it was.
For anyone else interested: JABAX goes back to 1992 and, overall, has done well since.
Agreed. I've tracked allocation funds for probably three decades, and JABAX has always been a very good performer. It's just one you don't tend to hear much about any longer. I suspect the demise of Janus as a top performer has had a lot to do with that. |
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Post by roi2020 on Jan 25, 2024 2:44:15 GMT
Janus was very popular when "growth" was hot in the 90s.
I was invested in Janus Worldwide/Overseas for several years during this decade.
You don't hear much about the firm nowadays.
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Post by FD1000 on Jan 25, 2024 4:49:03 GMT
During my stock/allocation funds period (until 2017) I held several great ones in their time. During 2000-10 I held OAKBX,SGIIX + stock funds. OAKBX was very goo too and matched PRWCX but with lower volatility which is one of my LT goals(same performance with lower SD). SGIIX beat both PRWCX+OAKBX.( chart) Staring in 2011, I owned mostly US LC tilting growth + PRWCX which was fantastic compared to FBALX+JABAX(better than FBALX)...( chart). I stopped paying attention to M* years ago. They are biased. Generally, I don't believe managers can be great in all markets constantly, PRWCX is the exception. Growth has been working since 2010 and why VALUE, and especially deep VALUE funds lag for years. |
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Post by yakers on Jan 25, 2024 17:01:18 GMT
My largest single holding is VGWAX VG Global Wellington, satisfied that it is doing what I want
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mrc
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
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Post by mrc on Jan 26, 2024 1:14:30 GMT
As far as I know, FBALX and JABNX are concerned, they are always on the growthy side for their stock allocation, probably due to the type of investing their fund shops are known for. However, in general, Balanced funds are Value funds for their stock portion historically. Only in the last 10 years or so, many balanced funds are migrating towards growth ending up in blend category of M*. One of the examples is VWELX. Its top 10 stocks seems like a growth or tech fund. MSFT, GOOG, AMZN, AAPL, META, etc. You see less expensive growth stocks like GOOG and META in many value funds now including such value oriented balanced funds.
FBALX and JABNX's good performance in the peer group is due to growth outperforming value over the last 10-15 years.
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Post by catdog on Jan 30, 2024 22:49:22 GMT
FBALX also tends to allocate closer to 70% stocks when most of the allocation funds it compares to are more like 60/40 funds.
Catdog
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Post by Mustang on Jan 31, 2024 13:50:15 GMT
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Post by yogibearbull on Jan 31, 2024 16:13:41 GMT
Mustang , all good funds. Choice may depend on availability at firms/brokerages. VWELX has a slight edge, but may require Vanguard account. ALL could easily support 6.6%+ withdrawals w/COLA and preserve inflation-adjusted initial principal (see SWRMs). PWR SWR SWRM VWELX 6.09% 7.83% 7.06% FBALX 6.00% 7.38% 6.63% ABALX 5.78% 7.57% 6.73% FPURX 5.89% 7.44% 6.65% ABALX / BALFX also available NTF/no-load at Fido & Schwab.
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Post by Mustang on Jan 31, 2024 17:44:36 GMT
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