my great big jewelry dilemma ...

[flipperxxx]

  tomorrow i fly to see my daughter, which i do three or four times a year, and each time, before leaving, i think about all this jewelry i have.  it's fabulous old kooky art-deco stuff, most of it, which came to me via my great aunt and my grandmother, both long gone.  i grew up seeing these things worn and loved, so i have deep memories about them and i love 'em too, though not so much that i wear the gold and platinum and whatnot.  i store them in a closet and take them out from time to time, just to feel how they've always felt to me.  but i'm old now and not in great health and my daughter is my only heir and before flying to see her i always nearly bring the jewelry to let her take over the care.

but here's the thing.  she has no memories attached to any of it and she doesn't wear jewelry and when i bring the topic up, she usually is only interested in how much it's worth.  it's not a fortune but it's a good bit.  and then there's this odd pen that supposedly once belonged to the last czar of russia's accountant.  i just don't know.  she'll get it when i die and i should hand it over while i'm still able, just so it doesn't disappear before she makes the 3000 mile trip to my final resting place.  and what else would i do with it?  sell it and put the proceeds in PRWCX, for her to get, too?  and she doesn't have any kids so where does it all go after her?

all these things i'm thinking about and by writing here i'd hoped to clarify my thinking but so far, no go.  the muddle remains.  anyway, if anyone reads this, thanks for letting me blabber on.  maybe it'll be helpful in a bit.

[richardsok]

You're wading in deep waters, here, flip -- older treasures of some value that we cherish for sentimentality sake that our younger ones don't. I have a hand-made quilt done by my grandmother on their Depression-era southern Illinois farm, maybe around the 1930s or early 40s. When the cousins all went down there every summer, there weren't enough beds for us all. I was one of the youngest, so they pushed two easy chairs together and rolled me up on them in the quilt. It's admittedly fairly tatty now, and could use some repairs. I offered it to my daughter who recoiled in a sniffy kind of distaste. So I will offer it to my sister's kids.

If no dice among my family, there is www.collectibleswithcauses.org/

These people accept antiques and gifts of some collectible value for charity.

As for wrestling with memories, mortality and emotions -- I'm afraid you're on your own.

[Norbert]

Definitely deep waters.

I think the really important thing is your daughter and her happiness. It's great that you can see her frequently. I suggest accepting the fact she's indifferent to your treasures and not letting that cloud your relationship in any way.

Perhaps discuss your dilemma and her preferences together, but try to keep it light. Would the money be useful to her or her children? Perhaps to help pay for their education? If not, then perhaps donate to a favorite charity or museum. If yes, then I'd sell it; maybe giving certain pieces to friends.

Some people just don't care about jewelry and such. I'm like that. My mom had some valuable jewelry, which I suggested she give to friends.

Ultimately it's a small problem; your daughter's well-being is everything. Enjoy every minute together.

[flipperxxx]

excellent thoughts and advice, you two. 'ultimately it's a small problem' really resonates with me. it is ... it truly is. i just wish my daughter had more of an interest in these things. a year ago, i found my great aunt's diaries from 1917/18 while she was at smith college, then three more complete diaries from a single year, 1923. turns out she was far far more than i ever knew or could have imagined, a world-traveling bisexual bon vivant of the first water, traveling in her own madcap way through post-WW1 europe. her writing is so good that i started transcribing it and putting it online for anyone who is interested. see thekathidiaries.substack.com/. a ton of work, and my daughter has no interest. it saddens me, i guess. and then what will become of a diaries when i'm gone? gawd, i shudder to conceive. but she should have them because maybe one day they will interest her. that's my hope anyway.

[gman57]

Yes, yes I think we all can relate. We have many old heirlooms that the our kids could care less about. They'll take one item once in a while but overall they're not interested. We offer it to them and then think about throwing the stuff out when they say no thanks.... but we keep it. Maybe when they go through all of the stuff once we're gone they'll think differently. If not, it's theirs to do with as they wish. We're giving it to them one way or another LOL. When we cleaned out our parents house most went in the dumpster..... that's life. Most of the things we save over time are really just for us.

[Norbert]

Good grief! Had a quick look at the diaries, just the Verdun one. (Lived there as a child 1961-64.)

This is amazing stuff, both the writing and the photos! It's a brilliant historical document, and story too.

I think you ought to consider showing the diaries to a good publisher, maybe someone in London. Share it with the world?

Thinking more about the jewelry, it might be of real interest to a museum. Visited Adelaide recently and was amazed by the very interesting art museum given the provincial nature of the city, fantastic curator. If your objects are really good, why not? Unless your family prefers the monetary value.

[chang]

After the passing of my mom earlier this year, and with the sale of her house (in which she lived for 45 years) getting closer, my sister and I wrestled with these issues. Unfortunately for her, she is a great deal more sentimental than I am.

I had to remind her that in a hundred years, strangers would be living in her house, all her possessions would be gone (or, if not gone, in the hands of people who have no idea where they had been), her car would be long since rusted and junked, and there would be no pictures of our family hanging on any walls of any house.

Memory only goes back 2-3 generations or so, and that’s the way it should be. The old needs to make way for the new.

[Mustang]

Once something is given away you no longer control what happens to it. Someone else cannot develop an emotional attachment based on your memories. They can only develop it from their own. Hearing stories, reading about family history is not the same thing as living it. A ring that reminds you of your great grandmother may bring back a memory so strong that you can almost smell the bread you helped her make. But, your children didn't bake or smell the bread and will most likely never have the same feeling about that ring.

We downsized a couple of years ago to a smaller, single floor house. We gave so much to the kids that they put their feet down and said no more. They didn't have room for it either and are already selling the things that that they don't want. Some items they kept are a surprise. My daughter is keeping an old pair of spurs I rode with and gave to her when she first starting riding. If they have been her great grandfather's they would have meant nothing. But, teaching her to ride was something we did together.  That memory is what's important to her.

If those things are important to you then keep them as long as you can. When they become your daughter's she will decide what to do. Who knows? After you're gone they may become important to her simply because they were important to you. Otherwise she will just sell them.  But, I'm sure there will be some  things that are important to her. Things that remind her of you.

[flipperxxx]

mustang: your last paragraph -- excellent. i guess i'd known that all along but for some reason could not bring to the surface of my scattered brain. thank you.
norbert: glad you like what you read! and a great suggestion, to look to overseas for publishing possibilities. i tried here in the U.S. and got no interest, largely because, while Kathi is a native, no one stateside would apparently care about what she does in europe, quality of the writing making no difference whatsoever. or else they wanted me to wrap the diaries in a narrative of my own, about the discovery and its meaning to me, which i don't have the energy for at this late stage of the living game.

i could see if a museum had an interest but, frankly, i'd rather give bits and pieces to friends and leave the rest to my (wonderful!) daughter, as per mustang's thoughts.

all here: thanks for weighing in. very helpful. and today i fly, sans jewelry, for now ....

[johntaylor]

Speaking of Verdun, a relative was on a stretcher near there on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918.

He got the Distinguished Service Cross (second highest),  spotted a pretty nurse at Walter Reed, married her, and lived another 60 years.

[yakers]

No solutions, I have a musical instrument from my father which I don't know how to play but will not part with, remember hearing it @5 yr old. I am looking for a young non related person to give it to if I can be sure it will be used and cared for. My wife has her mothers jewlery which she doesn't care for and would sell if there were an effective way to do but retained an artwork her dad made. Make sure to pass on things the next generation wants before you pass or it may not happen. The rest don't wrooy about or find a non relative that wants it and will appreciate it.

[archer]

I think people (not all of course) develop an appreciation for family history and its artifacts when they are older. Maybe talk with your daughter as Norbert suggested and share with her why these items mean a lot to you. Perhaps a time will come when she will value them as a connection with you when she is older and no longer visiting.

My GF had a lot of jewelry passed down to her, and I helped her sell much of it, and she kept some special pieces for herself. I found that it can take a lot of looking to get a good price. The spread from lowest to highest was a good 300%.

BTW those diaries are amazing!

[flipperxxx]

archer: glad you like the diaries. hard as hell to transcribe, given her tiny handwriting, but i'm keeping at it. i know it'll be perplexing if i decide to sell the jewelry and trying to get a fair price. otoh, if i leave it to my daughter and she sells the things, then i fear she'll take the first offer. i think you're right about her coming to value the jewelry herself if i tell her more about my connection to them.

yakers: i also have my grandfather's records as an artillery captain in france during WW1. lots of photos, lots of paper records and notes, very interesting to me. i know i have to find someone to give them to who will keep them together and not parcel them out for sale. am searching ...

[Chahta]

Nov 10, 2023 17:54:25 GMT flipperxxx said:

  tomorrow i fly to see my daughter, which i do three or four times a year, and each time, before leaving, i think about all this jewelry i have.  it's fabulous old kooky art-deco stuff, most of it, which came to me via my great aunt and my grandmother, both long gone.  i grew up seeing these things worn and loved, so i have deep memories about them and i love 'em too, though not so much that i wear the gold and platinum and whatnot.  i store them in a closet and take them out from time to time, just to feel how they've always felt to me.  but i'm old now and not in great health and my daughter is my only heir and before flying to see her i always nearly bring the jewelry to let her take over the care.

but here's the thing.  she has no memories attached to any of it and she doesn't wear jewelry and when i bring the topic up, she usually is only interested in how much it's worth.  it's not a fortune but it's a good bit.  and then there's this odd pen that supposedly once belonged to the last czar of russia's accountant.  i just don't know.  she'll get it when i die and i should hand it over while i'm still able, just so it doesn't disappear before she makes the 3000 mile trip to my final resting place.  and what else would i do with it?  sell it and put the proceeds in PRWCX, for her to get, too?  and she doesn't have any kids so where does it all go after her?

all these things i'm thinking about and by writing here i'd hoped to clarify my thinking but so far, no go.  the muddle remains.  anyway, if anyone reads this, thanks for letting me blabber on.  maybe it'll be helpful in a bit.

I have the same dilemma myself. It is not specifically about jewelry necessarily. Just my stuff generally. Who do you will things to and will they appreciate it or at least treasure it enough to keep it and pass it on. That is why I have written into my will that all should be sold and distribute the proceeds. It is sad that history doesn't mean much after a few generations. You have expressed my thoughts exactly.

Maybe spend some time with her teaching about your memories. It's possible she could gain some appreciation from the stories. I have found that passing information through stories (family lore) is important. That was the way of the world before computers and the internet. It is sad to know this how our life could play out. All I would want is the spoken recognition the treasures passed along are cherished and will be taken care of.

Great read about your great aunt. I have spent a lot of time on Ancestry.com and doing other research putting together my family tree. It lead me to finding my roots and joining the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma as a tribal member. I doubt any family member (aside from my brother) cares about that family history.

[gman57]

We are only memories for a very short period of time. It really hit me when I was executor for my brother. I had a couple items left like a drivers license and a ssn card. It was really really tough to throw them away. The last few items of his existence. One day someone will throw the last item of all of us away. We may live a little longer than previous generations as some digital bits of information in some computer someplace rarely accessed but even those bits will eventually disappear. Dust to dust is a very accurate description of our short existence.

[bizman]

I tend to look at my extended family a bit like a marine might look at the Marine Corps.  You may die but the Corps lives on.  In a few generations, I will likely have faded from memory.  But hopefully I did my part in terms of example, passing on values, kindness, love, etc. that may live on through those who come after.  It is humbling though.  As the saying goes, science advances one funeral at a time, and it may also be true for mankind as well, as much as that offends my own self love.

Ozymandias

BY PERCY BYSSHE SHELLEY
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

[waffle2]

My father who is 85 also recently said the same thing. His grandchildren know him and generation after that he is completely forgotten.

My mother is giving out the stuff she collected over her lifetime but no sons or daughter in laws really want it.

We just take it out of respect for her feelings. And the cycle will repeat for us.

[waffle2]

In Indian philosophy there is a concept of impermanence. And attachment to anything impermanent is a cause of suffering.

I recently came across this concept during a meditation practice.

[archer]

True, our predecessors are eventually forgotten, but until then, their lives can be useful lessons or at least entertaining. I have photographs of my parents and grandparents when they were young, as well as great grandparents. The photos of my great grandparents when they were old show settings, places they experienced, their homes etc. Their younger pictures are just portraits probably taken with a flash of whatever the explosive was used for lighting, and no background. I'm glad I have these pictures so I can live their lives vicariously, drive my dad's Packard, or '37 Indian, imagining what it was like to live in their world, and to see the hope shown in their young faces, which had faded by the time I was aware enough to notice.

[archer]

Nov 17, 2023 22:06:10 GMT waffle2 said:

In Indian philosophy there is a concept of impermanence. And attachment to anything impermanent is a cause of suffering.

I recently came across this concept during a meditation practice.

True, and with non attachment we might enjoy more fully while things last. 

[FD1000]

Let's keep it simple, I don't want to get anything from my parents, and I don't want to force my stuff upon my kids.
Exceptions: one box 1 ft. by 1 ft. is acceptable in our house. When I get older and move to a condo I'm throwing it all out.

[flipperxxx]

Thank you, all, for this wonderful and thought-provoking discussion. No surprise that I have a hard time throwing things out in general. My grandmother died 30 years ago and, since then, her ashes, still in a FedEx box sent to me by the Rapp Funeral Home of Washington, DC, has found a home in a trunk of any car I have owned, waiting, waiting, and waiting for the right time to meet the winds. Prolly won't happen in my lifetime ... and then it will be left to my daughter, along with the jewelry, of course. Lucky her!