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Post by yogibearbull on Sept 22, 2023 13:32:26 GMT
VG sent notices to bring up VG Admiral balances to minimum by mid-November (i.e. within 2 months), or those may be downgraded to Investor shares. Both being IRA a/c, it may be possible to shift $s in one, but not in the other.
I don't recall similar notices in the past. Of course, the initial purchases for Admiral always required $minimum, but then VG didn't care about the minimums if the a/c were "large" enough. May be VG is getting strict on this, or its definition of "large" has been revised internally.
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Post by yogibearbull on Oct 5, 2023 18:48:46 GMT
I wrote to Vanguard for temporary waiver for Admiral min of $50K. I cited bad 3-yr stretch for hybrids & that new money cannot be added to IRAs in retirement (only earnings from work can be contributed).
Vanguard's reply, after several days, was that it is looking into the matter.
If Vanguard's final response is negative, I will just SELL those Admiral hybrids (under $50K) ahead of Investor-conversion deadline and replace them with appropriate combo of TCAF + USFR. In the bigger scheme of things, the ER change doesn't matter. But Vanguard needs to have some pushbacks. After Vanguard forced conversion to brokerage, I am not limited to Vanguard funds.
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Post by seniornh231 on Oct 5, 2023 21:14:22 GMT
Yogibearbul: What are the negative impacts for VG investors as the result of VG forcing conversion from MF accts to brokerage accts? Higher fees? Thank you.
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Post by yogibearbull on Oct 5, 2023 21:56:16 GMT
seniornh231, we already had brokerage a/c at Fido & Schwab, so 5 new VG Brokerage a/c were quite unnecessary for us. We resisted until few weeks before when draconian per fund fees would have kicked in. These VG a/c used to be VG mutual funds only. But now, we go to non-VG funds when we feel appropriate. And if VG keeps making us unhappy, we may just dump VG.
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Post by anitya on Oct 6, 2023 0:53:56 GMT
yogibearbull , Is Fidelity falling asleep at the wheel? They sent me a notice two weeks too late about NRGX changing its mandate, name, and ticker effective Nov 21. PIMCO issued the notice on Sept 22, fulfilling the 60 day notice requirement.
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Post by Mustang on Oct 6, 2023 6:53:22 GMT
What are the negative impacts for VG investors as the result of VG forcing conversion from MF accts to brokerage accts? Higher fees? Thank you. I was one who didn't see a need for a brokerage account. I didn't trade a lot and I didn't want it. So far I haven't seen any negative impacts. But I have seen some positive ones.
The biggest change I noticed was that my mutual funds are no longer held by the Vanguard Group. Inc. They are now held by Vanguard Marketing Corporation. vanguard.com/pdf/vbafqm.pdf
I invest by dollar-cost-averaging. Extra money stored in a savings account and transferred to Vanguard for each month's buy. The transfer to a brokerage account allowed me to have one account instead of three (Roth IRA, and Wellington and Wellesley in taxable accounts). I now get one statement and one tax form for all. I also added a federal money market fund as a settlement account mostly because it was paying higher interest rates than my savings account, a lot higher. Instead of taking up to three days, the settlement account allows for same day trades.
Reading their literature, I also discovered that mutual funds are not covered by SIPC insurance. But, they are if they are in a brokerage account (up to $500,000 for each separate account) if the company fails. Joint accounts are considered separate from individual accounts, Roths separate from traditional IRAs and taxable accounts. If Vanguard Marketing were to fail then its assets would be transferred to another brokerage firm and we would be notified of any potential claims. www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/sipc-insurance-what-it-does-and-does-not-protect
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Post by Capital on Oct 6, 2023 11:19:33 GMT
I still have one ETF (VTI) holding in my Vanguard Brokerage Account. I keep the Brokerage Account and the Cash Plus Account for Cash Reserves purposes. Vanguard has higher yields on both their Brokerage Core MM and FDIC Cash Plus product that I can get at Fidelity. If it were not for that I would leave Vanguard entirely.
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Post by Chahta on Oct 6, 2023 11:54:18 GMT
What are the negative impacts for VG investors as the result of VG forcing conversion from MF accts to brokerage accts? Higher fees? Thank you. I was one who didn't see a need for a brokerage account. I didn't trade a lot and I didn't want it. So far I haven't seen any negative impacts. But I have seen some positive ones.
The biggest change I noticed was that my mutual funds are no longer held by the Vanguard Group. Inc. They are now held by Vanguard Marketing Corporation. vanguard.com/pdf/vbafqm.pdf
I invest by dollar-cost-averaging. Extra money stored in a savings account and transferred to Vanguard for each month's buy. The transfer to a brokerage account allowed me to have one account instead of three (Roth IRA, and Wellington and Wellesley in taxable accounts). I now get one statement and one tax form for all. I also added a federal money market fund as a settlement account mostly because it was paying higher interest rates than my savings account, a lot higher. Instead of taking up to three days, the settlement account allows for same day trades.
Reading their literature, I also discovered that mutual funds are not covered by SIPC insurance. But, they are if they are in a brokerage account (up to $500,000 for each separate account) if the company fails. Joint accounts are considered separate from individual accounts, Roths separate from traditional IRAs and taxable accounts. If Vanguard Marketing were to fail then its assets would be transferred to another brokerage firm and we would be notified of any potential claims. www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/sipc-insurance-what-it-does-and-does-not-protect
Isn't VG charging for non-brokerage accounts now? |
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Post by anovice on Oct 6, 2023 13:00:14 GMT
I was one who didn't see a need for a brokerage account. I didn't trade a lot and I didn't want it. So far I haven't seen any negative impacts. But I have seen some positive ones.
The biggest change I noticed was that my mutual funds are no longer held by the Vanguard Group. Inc. They are now held by Vanguard Marketing Corporation. vanguard.com/pdf/vbafqm.pdf
I invest by dollar-cost-averaging. Extra money stored in a savings account and transferred to Vanguard for each month's buy. The transfer to a brokerage account allowed me to have one account instead of three (Roth IRA, and Wellington and Wellesley in taxable accounts). I now get one statement and one tax form for all. I also added a federal money market fund as a settlement account mostly because it was paying higher interest rates than my savings account, a lot higher. Instead of taking up to three days, the settlement account allows for same day trades.
Reading their literature, I also discovered that mutual funds are not covered by SIPC insurance. But, they are if they are in a brokerage account (up to $500,000 for each separate account) if the company fails. Joint accounts are considered separate from individual accounts, Roths separate from traditional IRAs and taxable accounts. If Vanguard Marketing were to fail then its assets would be transferred to another brokerage firm and we would be notified of any potential claims. www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/sipc-insurance-what-it-does-and-does-not-protect
Isn't VG charging for non-brokerage accounts now? $25 per non-brokerage account if you (household) do not have $5M in Vanguard accounts. |
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Post by Chahta on Oct 6, 2023 13:20:17 GMT
Isn't VG charging for non-brokerage accounts now? $25 per non-brokerage account if you (household) do not have $5M in Vanguard accounts. I suppose if I had $4.9m I would not complain.... |
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Post by yogibearbull on Oct 6, 2023 13:26:11 GMT
I joined the discount brokerage revolution by opening brokerage accounts with Schwab and Fidelity in the 1980s. So, I am well familiar with their advantages.
Vanguard was so far behind and it just stuck to mutual funds, index funds and ETFs. But I kept large VG accounts all those years only because I like a handful of its mutual funds. What I didn't like was that VG decided to switch to brokerage a/c just a few years ago, and then wanted EVERYBODY to switch in a rush, OR ELSE. I didn't like forced conversion to brokerage under a threat of obnoxiously high fees. Most 401k/403b still have mutual-funds-only platforms and VG will have to carry those platforms for years. Also, VG keeps bumping up minimums required for basic services and its attitude now is that it is going after multimillion dollar accounts. I don't like that either. Even the level of VG Secure Messaging availability is now related to account balances (there have been threads/posts on this). Of course, its phone service also has only M-F 8am-9pm "office" hours. I have had VG security alerts kick in on late-Friday, but there was NO ONE around on phone or online to address that; I had to wait until Monday 8:01am to discuss that. Among the ultra-ST bonds, I like ICSH & USFR over VG VUSB (it has rather long average maturity; it doesn't even have the lowest ER). And now this Admiral minimum notice. So, the list of my VG complaints is growing. But this time, if VG isn't responsive, there WILL BE consequences.
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Post by liftlock on Oct 6, 2023 13:42:15 GMT
yogibearbull , Is Fidelity falling asleep at the wheel? They sent me a notice two weeks too late about NRGX changing its mandate, name, and ticker effective Nov 21. PIMCO issued the notice on Sept 22, fulfilling the 60 day notice requirement. Anitya, How does Fidelity notify you? I get my notices from Fidelity by surface mail and haven't received one yet. I wasn't expecting a more urgent notification. From my perspective it's not too late to take advantage of the change. As of 10/5/2023, NRGX closed at a 14.69% discount in spite of it recent price rise. I am expecting the discount to narrow as the fund converts to a new ticker. |
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Post by win1177 on Oct 6, 2023 14:39:25 GMT
I joined the discount brokerage revolution by opening brokerage accounts with Schwab and Fidelity in the 1980s. So, I am well familiar with their advantages. Vanguard was so far behind and it just stuck to mutual funds, index funds and ETFs. But I kept large VG accounts all those years only because I like a handful of its mutual funds. What I didn't like was that VG decided to switch to brokerage a/c just a few years ago, and then wanted EVERYBODY to switch in a rush, OR ELSE. I didn't like forced conversion to brokerage under a threat of obnoxiously high fees. Most 401k/403b still have mutual-funds-only platforms and VG will have to carry those platforms for years. Also, VG keeps bumping up minimums required for basic services and its attitude now is that it is going after multimillion dollar accounts. I don't like that either. Even the level of VG Secure Messaging availability is now related to account balances (there have been threads/posts on this). Of course, its phone service also has only M-F 8am-9pm "office" hours. I have had VG security alerts kick in on late-Friday, but there was NO ONE around on phone or online to address that; I had to wait until Monday 8:01am to discuss that. Among the ultra-ST bonds, I like ICSH & USFR over VG VUSB (it has rather long average maturity; it doesn't even have the lowest ER). And now this Admiral minimum notice. So, the list of my VG complaints is growing. But this time, if VG isn't responsive, there WILL BE consequences. Yogi, I’m sad to hear this. I’ve been with Vanguard for years (2008), and consolidated all our accounts there previously. Fortunately, we have north of 5M, so we don’t have to worry about individual account fees. But it does seem like they are slowly “abandoning” the average small investor and gradually moving towards taking only the “Uber wealthy”. Frustrating to me! I wonder what John Bogle would think if he saw them now??? In the past, I have liked Vanguard for their very low fees on broadly diversified mutual funds, and their long term focus on investing. But if they change too much, I may have to revisit our past “commitment” to them. Win |
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Post by anitya on Oct 6, 2023 14:42:34 GMT
liftlock , I receive everything by email which tells me log into the account and read. I try to eliminate as much human intervention as possible. I knew about the NRGX change the day off or the next day when PIMCO posted on their website. I was ragging on Fidelity. Schwab seems to have withdrawn more resources from TD Ameritrade as TD's website is becoming more and more unstable. A
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Post by Chahta on Oct 6, 2023 14:54:39 GMT
At the time VG is abandoning customer service, Schwab seems to be adding to customer service. Yesterday I got a new greeting when calling them. Now they seem to have different level of service based on the amount you have on deposit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 15:23:13 GMT
Vanguard investors can avoid the $25 brokerage fee by simply signing up for e-delivery of statements, trade confirmations, etc.
Just speculation on my part, but I think very aggressive competition between brokers left Vanguard short of the revenue needed to staff customer service, etc. Vanguard doesn't have the options to cut ERs and commissions to zero and then screw their customers somewhere else to compensate for the lost revenue.
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Post by Fearchar on Oct 6, 2023 15:40:17 GMT
I see they offer "Schwab Private Client Services".
With over $1M, you get a dedicated Financial Consultant, access to a wide range of specialists, tailored solutions, and pricing advantages.
With over $10M, you get the same.
Where the pricing advantages are is not clear to me.
If you want to access to a professional, then they have a fee structure.
Category 1: $80/$100,000 of Client Balance for one time or 0.0008 x Net Asset Flows
Category 2: $200/$100,000 of Client Balance for one time or 0.002 x Net Asset Flows
Category 3: hodge podge of fees for loans, referrals and insurance stuff.
They provide an example of somebody with $500K that works out to between $879 to $927 annually.
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Post by gman57 on Oct 6, 2023 16:36:40 GMT
One thing to be aware of at VG if you still have a mutual fund only account. It's highly unlikely this will matter, until it does.
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Securities held in Vanguard Brokerage Accounts are eligible for SIPC coverage. If your account number has 8 digits, you have a brokerage account. If your account has an 11-digit account number, it's a mutual fund-only account, which exists on our old platform and isn't covered by the SIPC. Transition your account to our brokerage platform to get SIPC coverage.
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