MOAT ETF

[sam]

Any Fans of this ETF?

This one has better relative performance than SPY and most of good returns are coming losing less in down years and under performing in good years. % of holding in top 10 is less than SPY.

What will other alternative of this ETF?

[steelpony10]

sam ,

   All your observations seem to be correct. MOAT may be doing better at the moment because of the smaller size companies then those making up SPY, VTI and VOO.

   So for slightly better results is the expense worth it to you? I see about 8k more gains over 10+ years to date.

   Maybe the swings are less because those companies aren’t as widely held as the behemoths in those indexes.

    Also the AUM is dwarfed by the others by a wide margin.

    We hold VTI which is no better over that time period but much cheaper to hold for us long term.

[anitya]

We recently had a discussion about this ETF. You can search the Forum.

[Chahta]

If you are looking to establish a LC position (div, gwth, defense) then look at them all. But consider what you are after. My LC is SCHX. It could easily be SCHB or VTI. MOAT takes ER at the expense of yield and appears a little more growthier. But as far as comparing it to SCHD it does not compare.

[mrc]

Unrelated to the topic, but these ETFs invited my attention, especially the Shareholder Yield ones.


www.cambriafunds.com/etfs

[anitya]

Jul 27, 2023 17:55:35 GMT mrc said:

Unrelated to the topic, but these ETFs invited my attention, especially the Shareholder Yield ones.


www.cambriafunds.com/etfs

mrc ,

If you are interested in profiling your favorite ETF or a new ETF idea, you can express that in this thread - big-bang-investors.proboards.com/thread/1869/share-etf-ideas

MOAT is my single largest active equity ETF holding but I have not profiled it there because I do not have time to write up but others are welcome to do it.  I call it active though it is index based because (from my memory) ~20% of its constituents change every quarter, though there are guard rails in place since 2016 not to lose positive momentum (i.e., do not let over zealous valuation eat momentum) by over turnover. 

[saratoga]

I favor MOAT for these additional reasons.

1. It's good record this year owes little to the magnificent seven. It's portfolio is very well diversified.

2. It's upward capture ratio is 102 and downward capture ratio is 95 relative to SP500.

[archer]

Tom Bowley was praising MOAT recently. His point was that MOAT has been underweight compared to the S&P in the sectors that have been outperforming the S&P, but outperforming the S&P itself. Accomplishing this shows that they are good at picking stocks.

[anitya]

Not a good thing for me if it becomes too popular!

[racqueteer]

Jul 28, 2023 8:32:07 GMT anitya said:

Not a good thing for me if it becomes too popular!

Why would it be bad for people to be buying what you own?  

[sam]

Thanks all for your insights and thoughts.

Has anyone compare MOAT to QUAL? They don't have much overlap. To me QUAL seems to do well in HOT market where as MOAT do well when market rally is Broad based. MOAT seems to doing well over long term by losing less in a down year. If you lose 50% then you need to gain 100% to break even. If you lose 20% then you need to gain 25% to break even.

[anitya]

Jul 28, 2023 8:32:07 GMT anitya said:

Not a good thing for me if it becomes too popular!

Yep.  Lost 4% more than SPY since my post.  Today, when every ETF on my watch list, incl IWM, is doing well, MOAT is struggling to break-even.   Seems like it is getting too big to shine - success is getting to somebody's head.

[FD1000]

And this is why I try NOT to post what I own. I want my funds to stay really small. It's super important in bond land

[archer]

Jeez, when I post my buys of small funds, they just get smaller! Just as well I guess. It helps keep me humble. Uh oh, now I'm bragging about being humble. :-)

[anitya]

Oh well. At least I did not add during this latest swoon while cleaning clutter in my portfolio.

P.S.: MOAT lost >5% more than SPY since July 28.

[habsui]

Who cares about 3 months?  1/3/5 years MOAT is better, maybe some lower volatility.

Good investing..

[anitya]

Oct 25, 2023 6:59:10 GMT anitya said:

Oh well. At least I did not add during this latest swoon while cleaning clutter in my portfolio.

P.S.: MOAT lost >5% more than SPY since July 28.

MOAT continue to suck in 2024.  i was hoping its March 15 reconstitution would fix its underperformance post December reconstitution but last one week has not been any prize.  It currently sports 8+% overweight in HC while i already have HC funds.  In 2024, i started to decrease HC funds.  sold out of IHI & FSMEX.  In process of selling out of FSPHX.  Next PRHSX.  Will be stuck with VHT in taxable acct.

[Norbert]

Mar 22, 2024 18:13:09 GMT anitya said:

Oct 25, 2023 6:59:10 GMT anitya said:

Oh well. At least I did not add during this latest swoon while cleaning clutter in my portfolio.

P.S.: MOAT lost >5% more than SPY since July 28.

MOAT continue to suck in 2024.  i was hoping its March 15 reconstitution would fix its underperformance post December reconstitution but last one week has not been any prize.  It currently sports 8+% overweight in HC while i already have HC funds.  In 2024, i started to decrease HC funds.  sold out of IHI & FSMEX.  In process of selling out of FSPHX.  Next PRHSX.  Will be stuck with VHT in taxable acct.

MOAT is up 27% over 12 months and 4%+ YTD. I have it in my portfolio and am not complaining. OK, it's not tracking the very growthy stocks, maybe because the MOAT model doesn't like the valuations? Don't know.

I think the question is whether we buy into the MOAT model; if we do, then I'd ignore short-term performance fluctuations. The model isn't based on momentum, so I wouldn't expect it to track the indexes. Could MOAT's advantage get arbitraged away as the market incorporates the logic into its pricing? I don't know that either, but it's possible.

Whether to invest in sector funds is a different question. I think it's challenging to do successfully.

FWIW,
N.

[chang]

Norbert Just to clarify, “burned” is a bit harsh. My FSUTX position shows up +6.15% and I think I’ve owned it for 2-3 years. So while I haven’t actually lost any money, there has of course been a huge opportunity cost loss. It’s the worst performing fund in my IRA.

I’m going to keep it through the end of 2024. If it’s still stagnating by the end of the year, then I’ll cut it loose.

[Norbert]

Mar 23, 2024 10:28:01 GMT chang said:

Norbert Just to clarify, “burned” is a bit harsh. My FSUTX position shows up +6.15% and I think I’ve owned it for 2-3 years. So while I haven’t actually lost any money, there has of course been a huge opportunity cost loss. It’s the worst performing fund in my IRA.

I’m going to keep it through the end of 2024. If it’s still stagnating by the end of the year, then I’ll cut it loose.

No, "burned" probably wasn't the right verb. Owning Utilities hasn't been catastrophic.

"Burned" is what happened to me after investing in Hussman's HSGFX. The shame, the pure stupidity of my decision, has haunted me for years. 🙄

In fact, it hurts more than the restraining order Scarlett Johansson had issued against me for alleged stalking.

[anitya]

My HC sector investing is from 20+ years, a time when I did not know what investing meant. With my current knowledge I would buy sector funds only for a trade.  

I have to go back and read MOAT methodology and why it is 8+% overweight (or 13% underweight (technology)) in any sector.  In an election year or otherwise with an aging population, there is going to be pressure to decrease profits of HC companies.  MOAT is also somewhat of an equal weight (I.e., not cap or some other weight) portfolio which is also a reason for its underperformance of late. 

One of the knock against MOAT is its negative momentum bias which they tried to correct with their 2016 change in methodology. I think they need to correct it a bit more. They still get out too soon and get into value trap stocks. It’s my main Value investment and so I tolerate periodic underperformance due to its negative momentum bias. I do not have much of a choice but to tolerate cause it is in a taxable account. But if we are in a 1990s type bull market, MOAT can have a long road of underperformance ahead. I guess every methodology (and theme) hits a pot hole eventually. YTD, it is the least performing broad based stock fund in my watch list, FWIW. I guess for a taxable account, the best ETFs are the market cap weighted, the same kinds you buy and forget.