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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 28, 2023 2:26:05 GMT
I selected 5* Multisector bond funds on e*Trade platform - they all have no mininums and no transaction fee. I am including two charts that compare them. Is it necessary to hold more than one MS fund? Let us use this thread to discuss these funds or other similar funds. Thanks.   |
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Post by Fearchar on Jun 28, 2023 10:53:14 GMT
Good topic. I own RCTIX and plan to buy more after the FED starts to cut rates.
Will look over the other funds later. I will need to understand their strategies.
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Post by Fearchar on Jun 28, 2023 10:54:37 GMT
I will probably only own one or two bond funds and watch them like a hawk.
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Post by Chahta on Jun 28, 2023 15:05:07 GMT
“Hold more than 1 MS fund?”
Probably not. My choice is to hold several types of bond funds and spread it around. My MS fund is TSIIX. It holds more IG bonds than the others listed here. I am holding for the long term income not a quick CG.
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Post by steelpony10 on Jun 28, 2023 20:35:20 GMT
steadyeddy , This stuff is out of my lane but I can offer an opinion. I can’t see a symbol on your post but Fearchar , listed one. Ratings aren’t too important to me. Todays 5 stars are next quarters 4 stars or worse. I look at how management managed during recent crises, maybe costs and of course the ratings of a bond funds’ holdings. How many fit a need? You’re sorta building a “team” of investments. We hold VWAHX, a muni, to hold cash in a taxable account and PONAX/PIMIX in a TIRA to hold cash there. So one in each to fill that need. But I buy and hold until the need or managements ability disappears. I don’t base anything on speculative future markets or expect cap gains from bonds just mainly performance of management under stress to protect our excess cash to needs.
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 28, 2023 22:22:30 GMT
steadyeddy , This stuff is out of my lane but I can offer an opinion. I can’t see a symbol on your post but Fearchar , listed one. Ratings aren’t too important to me. Todays 5 stars are next quarters 4 stars or worse. I look at how management managed during recent crises, maybe costs and of course the ratings of a bond funds’ holdings. How many fit a need? You’re sorta building a “team” of investments. We hold VWAHX, a muni, to hold cash in a taxable account and PONAX/PIMIX in a TIRA to hold cash there. So one in each to fill that need. But I buy and hold until the need or managements ability disappears. I don’t base anything on speculative future markets or expect cap gains from bonds just mainly performance of management under stress to protect our excess cash to needs. , thanks for a thoughtful reply. It makes a lot of sense. Btw, the first attachment image includes PIMIX, AXSIX, RFXIX, and RCTIX.. and you will see some key metrics in the two attachments. |
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Post by steelpony10 on Jun 28, 2023 23:12:28 GMT
steadyeddy , Well I’m not familiar with anything but PIMIX. I like to see crisis management at least for 2018, 2020 and 2022 then. Assuming the investment is for income, what happened with income flow? Short term which I consider that period and how people perceive values can’t be controlled by management any other way. The wall of perpetual woe controls everything else. That’s why I went the cash flow route. It was easier to see and monitor that. I can wait a long time for values which I consider move to unpredictably.
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Post by Fearchar on Jun 29, 2023 1:00:13 GMT
 Here's a side by side comparison of the funds using data from Morningstar. Many difference.... Unfortunately, not a complete picture for AXSIX and RFXIX. I'm short of time right now, but will follow-up later with more thoughts. |
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 29, 2023 1:01:35 GMT
steadyeddy , Well I’m not familiar with anything but PIMIX. I like to see crisis management at least for 2018, 2020 and 2022 then. Assuming the investment is for income, what happened with income flow? Short term which I consider that period and how people perceive values can’t be controlled by management any other way. The wall of perpetual woe controls everything else. That’s why I went the cash flow route. It was easier to see and monitor that. I can wait a long time for values which I consider move to unpredictably. , PIMIX has the longest track record, and consistent performance.. and is also the largest by AUM. Some would argue that the large AUM is a problem in being nimble. |
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Post by roi2020 on Jun 29, 2023 2:00:17 GMT
I owned RCTIX for a while. I liked this fund when George Jikovski managed it.
Mr. Jikovski left unexpectedly last year and it became evident the parent firm did not have a succession plan in place.
There was a good thread about RCTIX on MFO.
Link |
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 29, 2023 2:42:14 GMT
I owned RCTIX for a while. I liked this fund when George Jikovski managed it.
Mr. Jikovski left unexpectedly last year and it became evident the parent firm did not have a succession plan in place.
There was a good thread about RCTIX on MFO.
Link I read through the MFO thread, and it makes me pause and think about RCTIX, although it is a favorite of some on this forum. Thanks for posting roi2020 . |
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Post by steelpony10 on Jun 29, 2023 10:36:59 GMT
steadyeddy , I still look at AUM and premiums as similar to higher PE’s. Indicators of confidence in management to keep cash (or cap gains) flowing. I also need a track record. PIMCO is bond royalty. That was enough for me. Probably about a third of our portfolio is held in PIMCO products and will remain so for now. The holy grail of perfect investments under all market conditions that performs for an unknown length of time under unknown conditions and for everyone’s present and future personal needs doesn’t exist. This fact makes it easy to stick with the investments who’s management has the best chance for us to have a successful retirement until those facts change.
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 29, 2023 13:18:31 GMT
steadyeddy , ..... edited for brevity..... The holy grail of perfect investments under all market conditions that performs for an unknown length of time under unknown conditions and for everyone’s present and future personal needs doesn’t exist. This fact makes it easy to stick with the investments who’s management has the best chance for us to have a successful retirement until those facts change. Well said steelpony10. But I also want to be open to upcoming funds that may show traits worthy of paying attention to. |
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Post by steelpony10 on Jun 29, 2023 14:21:34 GMT
steadyeddy , I was just invested in solving the retirement puzzle. It took me about 20 years to plainly see the solution clearly, cover all markets, when their occurance is completely unknown. It turned out to be pretty simple. Now I can do anything else I want within reason without the stress and workload of a part time job until I die. Most of my other hobbies are outside and end at some point.
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 29, 2023 14:26:06 GMT
steadyeddy , I was just invested in solving the retirement puzzle. It took me about 20 years to plainly see the solution clearly, cover all markets, when their occurance is completely unknown. It turned out to be pretty simple. Now I can do anything else I want within reason without the stress and workload of a part time job until I die. Most of my other hobbies are outside and end at some point. , I am waiting for that day when I would reach the same nirvana as you did  |
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Post by yakers on Jun 29, 2023 17:58:30 GMT
steadyeddy , The holy grail of perfect investments under all market conditions that performs for an unknown length of time under unknown conditions and for everyone’s present and future personal needs doesn’t exist. AFAIK the Permanent Portfolio is a crack at that holy grail, with decent results over very long periods of time, more time than I have these days. |
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Post by yakers on Jun 29, 2023 18:06:49 GMT
How do these (and others?) multi sector funds compare to BND? (I assume than BND by definition is a MS fund). I held BND (well, as the FI part of VBIAX) and have a dislike of it these days. Switched over to VG balanced funds like Global Wellington and Wellsley hoping the VG bond managers will navigate these rising interest rate times better than I. I also hold some MM Funds and the Federal TSP G Fund (something like a stable value fund) but have never paid a lot of attention to bonds. Would like to find a single, well managed, low fee bond fund to 'set and forget' but haven't found one yet. Which fund anticipated the rising interest rates and at least shortened terms and is keeping their eye on the ball for where to be if the rates stabilize/reduce?
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Post by steelpony10 on Jun 29, 2023 18:43:53 GMT
yakers , Are you refering to PRPFX, Permanent Portfolio? I don’t think I’ve ever ran across that one. It looks pretty good for a buy and holder.
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 29, 2023 18:50:12 GMT
How do these (and others?) multi sector funds compare to BND? (I assume than BND by definition is a MS fund). I held BND (well, as the FI part of VBIAX) and have a dislike of it these days. Switched over to VG balanced funds like Global Wellington and Wellsley hoping the VG bond managers will navigate these rising interest rate times better than I. I also hold some MM Funds and the Federal TSP G Fund (something like a stable value fund) but have never paid a lot of attention to bonds. Would like to find a single, well managed, low fee bond fund to 'set and forget' but haven't found one yet. Which fund anticipated the rising interest rates and at least shortened terms and is keeping their eye on the ball for where to be if the rates stabilize/reduce? BND is plain vanilla US bond fund in the sense it holds treasuries, mortgage backed bonds, and corporate bonds but with higher share of treasuries. Its duration is whatever the investment grade universe has. The funds mentioned in this thread are all actively managed funds which change both the composition of bonds they hold - quality and duration; so they try to anticipate future rate movements. BND is mandated to be aggregate bond fund with whatever duration the bond universe represents. So, BND would not be able to move/change its content or duration. These actively managed funds also go outside of the US and also go into non-investment grade space. I regard PIMIX highly since it has history of over 15 years with very solid performance - but there are folks that have reservations about it too. |
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 1, 2023 10:47:24 GMT
Multisector funds vary a lot in strategies, so I can see the value of owning more than 1. For many, availability at brokerages may be the issue. I like PONAX/PIMIX and more tame FADMX.
BND is hardly multisector. FWIW, the so-called total bond market is only investment-grade. A true total market is IUSB and may be that is a multi-lite.
PRPFX is a multi-asset fund.
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Post by yakers on Jul 1, 2023 16:37:55 GMT
Always facinated by PRPFX, its a great thought experiment, not sure how it would fit in my portfolio. I don't have a great worry about inflation as I have a COLAd pension and house is paid off and a few ibonds. As this is a multi sector and not a multi asset thread I don't want to focus on that here, just responding to a post.
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