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Post by Fearchar on Apr 5, 2023 22:30:21 GMT
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Post by steadyeddy on Apr 6, 2023 0:22:36 GMT
Fearchar, thanks for posting this video. There is some goofy stuff going on with autos to keep prices inflated. I hear that even the auto-auction-houses are trickling volumes of cars they repossess in order to keep prices inflated. A friend of mine is in the market looking for a toyota camry - and believe it or not the new dealers are saying MSRP + tint package ($2000 to $4000) + tax/title/tag - no negotiation. This sh*t is going to blow up one way or another.
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Post by FD1000 on Apr 6, 2023 13:15:02 GMT
( finance.yahoo.com/news/oversupply-cars-trigger-price-war-050000299.html) Another click and bait article. I have been looking to replace my old minivan. Any hybrid vehicle that I want is in very short supply and overpriced. For years I have been posting that hybrid, especially Toyota are the best option for price, reliability, and LT ownership. I want to get the lower model Hybrid, but all they have is the upper model at $10K more and very limited offers. To recoup the different will take 20 years. Hyundai/Kia look like the only option with better prices, warranty and more equipment, and why I bought Tucson last year, after my wife totaled our Camry. Still waiting for the recession and lower prices, they will come!!!
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Post by flipperxxx on Apr 6, 2023 13:25:01 GMT
( finance.yahoo.com/news/oversupply-cars-trigger-price-war-050000299.html) Another click and bait article. I have been looking to replace my old minivan. Any hybrid vehicle that I want is in very short supply and overpriced. For years I have been posting that hybrid, especially Toyota are the best option for price, reliability, and LT ownership. I want to get the lower model Hybrid, but all they have is the upper model at $10K more and very limited offers. To recoup the different will take 20 years. Hyundai/Kia look like the only option with better prices, warranty and more equipment, and why I bought Tucson last year, after my wife totaled our Camry. Still waiting for the recession and lower prices, they will come!!! i couldn't wait anymore and last week bought a 2015 toyota sienna minivan w 43k miles for wayyy too much money. i did have my beat up ol' great prius to trade. dealer offered me $400. went up the street to carmax which gave me $7,600. i called dealer to see if he'd match the offer. he snorted, said no way. then he said, take the money and run. which i did. the way i see it, both new and used cars are way overpriced, as you say, but so are any trades you might have. kinda halfway evens things up, imho.
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Post by mnfish on Apr 6, 2023 13:31:31 GMT
"carmax which gave me $7,600."
Maybe has something to do with their stock price being down 40% in a year?
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Post by Chahta on Apr 6, 2023 13:52:20 GMT
We are buying a Toyota hybrid. They are hard to come by in the trim level I want. Local dealers all add $5k to the MSRP. I kept contacting dealers further away and did procure a better deal (far less than $5k over MSRP) 3 hours out of town. I am not happy but any difference above MSRP is being spent keeping this lousy 2009 Hyundai we have going. I gave the dealer my credit card number for a deposit and he started looking for us. What is interesting is a local dealer I got quotes from, on 2 vehicles on the lot, are still there after 3 weeks. For the $5k they can easily outwait buyers.
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Post by Fearchar on Apr 6, 2023 14:05:39 GMT
One of my daughters wanted to buy a new Rav last year with towing option and special paint. Hard to find, and the dealers that had ones were asking $10k over MSRP.
She finally found one at MSRP a thousand miles away in Iowa. I was retired at the time. So I flew out and drove it back. Only problem is that there were no plates on it. Amazingly, I made it all the way without any interest from police.
It is a great car. Averaged over 33mpg.
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Post by richardsok on Apr 6, 2023 14:22:29 GMT
We are buying a Toyota hybrid. They are hard to come by in the trim level I want. Local dealers all add $5k to the MSRP. I kept contacting dealers further away and did procure a better deal (far less than $5k over MSRP) 3 hours out of town. I am not happy but any difference above MSRP is being spent keeping this lousy 2009 Hyundai we have going. I gave the dealer my credit card number for a deposit and he started looking for us. What is interesting is a local dealer I got quotes from, on 2 vehicles on the lot, are still there after 3 weeks. For the $5k they can easily outwait buyers. On the subject of cars, I might mention I haven't experienced any buyer's remorse with my '21 Crosstrek I bought used four months ago. With the bigger 2.5l motor it's as zippy as a geezer like me could reasonably want, yet leaps just shy of the "able to scare myself" snarling acceleration I always like to have. For handling, it's as nimble as any sports car i've ever owned. I had to pay for ridiculous things like "lane change alert" and "keyless locks & starting" and "power mirrors". Other that it is nicely spartan with manual adjusting seats, old-school radio volume knobs and a full size spare. As a crossover, it's just the right size for one or two with a small dog. More than that and you'll start to feel crowded. Some will think the front seats are too firm, but I like them OK. Waterproof upholstery is a plus, IMO. I also like the back-up display monitor is small enough to fit INTO the dashboard instead of poking up on top of it. The driver's height is a nice compromise between low in a car and way high in an SUV. I too wanted a RAV4 but was turned off by the premium pricing. At my dealership I had to give them my ornery curmudgeon act, played hard-to-get, and the dealer backed off. Even gave me free lifetime washing -- something I never use. Mechanically I haven't had so much as a hiccup. Yet. Thought I'd mention it.
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Post by Chahta on Apr 6, 2023 15:21:55 GMT
Here it comes....... LINK
I doubt this will affect the vehicles in demand.
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Post by chrisjen17 on Apr 6, 2023 16:56:50 GMT
Such a complex equation with lots of variables. But I don't see how prices can stay this much above typical inflation forever. Someone is going to be the first to break and lower costs for whatever reason (i.e. a manufacturer with a glut of supply, a megadealer like Carmax with cars on the lots too long, or a megalender repossessing thousands of cars) and drop prices to clear their books and it will all cascade from there. But until then, the market has changed and dealers are playing the 'DeBeers diamond' game. Releasing the inventory in a way to maximize profits. If you gave every dealer a choice to sell 3 vehicles and make $15k profit or play this game to sell 1 for $12k profit with longer holding duration, they'll take the 2nd option all day.
I read a report a few months back that lenders were starting to pull some crazy tactics with dealers to allow people to trade in cars they were underwater on and still finance a new one that they were immediately underwater on because the desire to repossess them was nil. Not only that, they'd instigate the transaction, letting the sucker know it was an option. They'd rather loan it and get what they can back than own any type of hard asset they have to handle.
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Post by mnfish on Apr 6, 2023 17:46:18 GMT
I would imagine that floor plan interest rates for dealers have gone up with other rates. Most dealerships don't "own" their inventory outright. When it gets too expensive to hold on to your inventory to make a hoped-for extra profit on a depreciating asset, prices will come down.
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Post by Fearchar on Apr 6, 2023 18:27:36 GMT
Can not help to think the smarter and better managed brands secured a lot of low cost financing back in 2021. They only know when that comes due. It is when that happens the there will be tremendous pressure. Of course this is if rates stay higher for longer. Rapid cuts would save a lot of grief. So, hard to say how it will play out. Keeps coming back to the FED.
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Post by FD1000 on Apr 6, 2023 19:49:40 GMT
If a Hybrid is 10K more, I will just get one without it, because a Hybrid makes sense for up to $4K. This is why we got a regular Tuscon. The hybrid was $7-8K more. Before covid, Camry Hybrid was only about $2000 more, a no-brainer. Toyota hybrid was the cheapest and had the best MPG.
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Post by newtecher on Apr 6, 2023 19:56:05 GMT
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Post by steadyeddy on Apr 6, 2023 22:01:10 GMT
One of my daughters wanted to buy a new Rav last year with towing option and special paint. Hard to find, and the dealers that had ones were asking $10k over MSRP. She finally found one at MSRP a thousand miles away in Iowa. I was retired at the time. So I flew out and drove it back. Only problem is that there were no plates on it. Amazingly, I made it all the way without any interest from police. It is a great car. Averaged over 33mpg. If you had a letter of sale with you the police would not haggle you. Dealers would put stickers anyways.
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Post by steadyeddy on Apr 6, 2023 22:03:05 GMT
But the autioneers are slowing auction volumes to maintain higher prices. Given the parts shortage in autos, the impact of higher delinquencies might not be visible in the used car market.
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Post by catdog on Apr 7, 2023 0:51:34 GMT
We tried to buy a new Prius hybrid in 2008. You couldn't find one so we went on a waitlist. Late winter of 2009 we got a call saying one was available. Apparently the great recession made financing unavailable to many who had ordered a new prius. We got a good one but only a $500 discount. Great car, ran it for 9 years and gave to our granddaughter who we think still runs it.
2018 we bought a Prius Prime plug-in hybrid. Also a nice car and $6000 less than the 2009. The electric charge only goes 30 miles but we do 80% of our shopping ten miles north of our house or 10 miles south of our house so mostly electric only trips. I am a big guy and it is small getting in and out of, but very comfortable once going down the road.
catdog
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Post by chang on Apr 7, 2023 0:56:46 GMT
Maybe because everyone is buying Jeep Wranglers? I am having a blast with my Jeep 4xe Wrangler. (The big 4-door version, plug in hybrid.) 375hp but not really “fast” in any sense, it’s too heavy. Incredibly fun to drive, though.
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Post by catdog on Apr 7, 2023 1:57:11 GMT
You are right Jeep's are everywhere. Our daughter bought the same Jeep 4xe as you chang and we got a Gladiator gas only. We managed to keep the Gladiator out of it's first New Hampshire winter not sure about next year.
Catdog
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Post by archer on Apr 7, 2023 4:28:34 GMT
With the supply chain problems of 2020 and 2021, I see an opening for change in the way cars are sold, following the downtrend of brick and mortar retail. Why will car dealers want to maintain the overhead of large lots and inventory when they can transition to the Amazon experience? Sure people like to test drive and kick tires. Too bad. I like to see and touch everything I buy but those days are dwindling. B&M isn't dead yet, but over the years it seems there is less variety of goods on the shelves.
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Post by Karen on Apr 7, 2023 10:47:58 GMT
A close family friend has owned Jeep's all of his life. He loved every one of them, and just deals (somehow) with the fact that it will be in the shop every other month to repair something. It's as close a you can get to cult vehicle ownership. www.hotcars.com/jeep-wrangler-reliability-why-score-low/"The 2023 Jeep Wrangler is the latest model. While it continues to be a loud, uncomfortable, impractical, and unreliable SUV, it remains heavily sought after and one of the more impressive off-road vehicles on the market today."
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Post by mnfish on Apr 7, 2023 10:48:23 GMT
Can not help to think the smarter and better managed brands secured a lot of low cost financing back in 2021. They only know when that comes due. It is when that happens the there will be tremendous pressure. Of course this is if rates stay higher for longer. Rapid cuts would save a lot of grief. So, hard to say how it will play out. Keeps coming back to the FED. Fearchar - Floorplan interest refers to what a dealer pays to have a car sit on the lot in current inventory, as the car is the collateral for the loan. A dealer couldn't secure floor plan rates 2 years before the car was built. You are probably referring to the manufacturers.
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Post by Fearchar on Apr 7, 2023 11:43:30 GMT
Can not help to think the smarter and better managed brands secured a lot of low cost financing back in 2021. They only know when that comes due. It is when that happens the there will be tremendous pressure. Of course this is if rates stay higher for longer. Rapid cuts would save a lot of grief. So, hard to say how it will play out. Keeps coming back to the FED. Fearchar - Floorplan interest refers to what a dealer pays to have a car sit on the lot in current inventory, as the car is the collateral for the loan. A dealer couldn't secure floor plan rates 2 years before the car was built. You are probably referring to the manufacturers. Good point. Franchise dealers don't necessarily finance their floor plans thru their manufacturers finance group. Some dealers may go thru banks or specialty finance firms. Either way, they have contracts with terms and conditions which will ultimately result in escalated costs under our current conditions. The smarter better managed should have foreseen this, but it will still be just a matter of time before the squeeze is broadly felt.
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