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Post by johnsmith on Feb 9, 2023 11:48:47 GMT
How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now.
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Post by newtecher on Feb 9, 2023 18:05:19 GMT
Interesting story. May be true. Sounds plausible except for Scholtz suddenly agreeing to sabotage Gemany's industry.
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Post by Norbert on Feb 9, 2023 22:40:33 GMT
Everything Biden does is a mistake. Russia could have been kept close; Iran could have been challenged instead if appeased; and eyes could have focused on China.
Though I admit that the demonstration of US weaponry in Ukraine might be affecting China's willingness to attack Taiwan.
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Post by Chahta on Feb 9, 2023 23:40:31 GMT
Everything Biden does is a mistake. Russia could have been kept close; Iran could have been challenged instead if appeased; and eyes could have focused on China. Though I admit that the demonstration of US weaponry in Ukraine might be affecting China's willingness to attack Taiwan. Because it is not done with the best interest of the USA. And now we know the reason for the mysterious leak. I suppose that leaked gas causes climate change. Hmmmmm |
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Post by gman57 on Feb 10, 2023 0:41:58 GMT
Yes, that's what we need here... politics.
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Post by newtecher on Feb 10, 2023 1:02:27 GMT
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Post by steadyeddy on Feb 10, 2023 1:27:21 GMT
This thread could quickly, easily go down the tubes... let us pull back up gang!
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Post by Chahta on Feb 10, 2023 11:37:17 GMT
It is big news now and Russia is aware. It’s too bad we have been outed. If true Russia will retaliate.
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Post by uncleharley on Feb 10, 2023 13:11:19 GMT
He seems to favor Russia or conspiracies that frequently originate in Russia. Personally, I have no problem with Russia, it's their leader that I would not trust even if I held a gun to his head. |
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Post by gman57 on Feb 10, 2023 13:27:10 GMT
LOL... that article was probably written by ChatGPT
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Post by Chahta on Feb 10, 2023 14:26:52 GMT
What was the point of blowing up the pipeline? To punish Russia? To punish the German people for buying cheap hydrocarbons? Seems as though the German government threw the citizens under the bus and we provoked Russia with an act of war. Buffoon politics. Is there no such thing as an actually covert operation anymore?
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Post by steadyeddy on Feb 10, 2023 19:25:52 GMT
What was the point of blowing up the pipeline? To punish Russia? To punish the German people for buying cheap hydrocarbons? Seems as though the German government threw the citizens under the bus and we provoked Russia with an act of war. Buffoon politics. Is there no such thing as an actually covert operation anymore? To find a ready market for the US liquified natural gas... |
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Post by Chahta on Feb 10, 2023 20:58:19 GMT
steadyeddy, personally I do not think that was a reason. They hate LNG for us to use, but maybe that is the double standard.
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Post by steadyeddy on Feb 10, 2023 22:39:21 GMT
steadyeddy , personally I do not think that was a reason. They hate LNG for us to use, but maybe that is the double standard. , several things in play: 1) prove to Russia that Europe can survive without Nordstrom pipeline - and starve Russia economically, 2) US has excess inventory of natural gas and we have been trying to ramp up demand for LNG so what better opportunity than sell to our friends. |
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Post by Norbert on Feb 10, 2023 23:25:07 GMT
I don't think Hersch denied Osama's responsibility for 9/11, but he did question the mission to capture Osama in Pakistan. Hersch claims that Pakistan was already holding Osama. Regarding the novichok poisoning, Hersch suggests that the Russian mafia was behind this, not the KGB. Apparently the victim was disclosing information compromising their activities. Anyway, Hersch did gain fame with his accurate reporting on My Lai and Watergate. He's more investigative journalist than conspiracy theorist, in my opinion. The Baltic pipeline story is plausible, imho. Why would the Russians sabotage their own pipeline? N. |
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Post by newtecher on Feb 10, 2023 23:45:29 GMT
I don't think Hersch denied Osama's responsibility for 9/11, but he did question the mission to capture Osama in Pakistan. Hersch claims that Pakistan was already holding Osama. Regarding the novichok poisoning, Hersch suggests that the Russian mafia was behind this, not the KGB. Apparently the victim was disclosing information compromising their activities. Anyway, Hersch did gain fame with his accurate reporting on My Lai and Watergate. He's more investigative journalist than conspiracy theorist, in my opinion. The Baltic pipeline story is plausible, imho. Why would the Russians sabotage their own pipeline? N. Quote from the story I linked: "‘I don’t necessarily buy the story that Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11,’ says Hersh". It is well known who carried out the novichok attack. It was Russian state agents (GRU). One possible reason for Russians to blow up the pipeline is to create a force majeure. At that point, they stopped supplying gas to Europe on the flimsiest of pretexts and were arguably in breach of contract. It is not a super convincing argument but it is possible. |
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Post by Chahta on Feb 11, 2023 1:31:45 GMT
steadyeddy , personally I do not think that was a reason. They hate LNG for us to use, but maybe that is the double standard. , several things in play: 1) prove to Russia that Europe can survive without Nordstrom pipeline - and starve Russia economically, 2) US has excess inventory of natural gas and we have been trying to ramp up demand for LNG so what better opportunity than sell to our friends. But that was for us to do? We are out of bounds yet again. Our government is trying to shut LNG down. Of course we have a good supply but the lack of will to use it. All because if it ain’t solar or wind it ain’t happening in this country. |
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Post by steadyeddy on Feb 11, 2023 1:35:03 GMT
Chahta , several things in play: 1) prove to Russia that Europe can survive without Nordstrom pipeline - and starve Russia economically, 2) US has excess inventory of natural gas and we have been trying to ramp up demand for LNG so what better opportunity than sell to our friends. But that was for us to do? We are out of bounds yet again. Certain swath of American politicians believe Russia to be the enemy... |
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Post by Chahta on Feb 11, 2023 1:40:57 GMT
Well they are the enemy. But you don’t go around blowing up their property (an act of war in my thinking) covertly then announce it to the world. What form of retaliation would we accept before everything blows up to WW3?
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Post by uncleharley on Feb 11, 2023 2:15:11 GMT
Somebody was saying that WW3 has already begun.
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Post by Norbert on Feb 11, 2023 8:19:17 GMT
I don't think Hersch denied Osama's responsibility for 9/11, but he did question the mission to capture Osama in Pakistan. Hersch claims that Pakistan was already holding Osama. Regarding the novichok poisoning, Hersch suggests that the Russian mafia was behind this, not the KGB. Apparently the victim was disclosing information compromising their activities. Anyway, Hersch did gain fame with his accurate reporting on My Lai and Watergate. He's more investigative journalist than conspiracy theorist, in my opinion. The Baltic pipeline story is plausible, imho. Why would the Russians sabotage their own pipeline? N. Quote from the story I linked: "‘I don’t necessarily buy the story that Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11,’ says Hersh". It is well known who carried out the novichok attack. It was Russian state agents (GRU). One possible reason for Russians to blow up the pipeline is to create a force majeure. At that point, they stopped supplying gas to Europe on the flimsiest of pretexts and were arguably in breach of contract. It is not a super convincing argument but it is possible. You read him more carefully than I did. Good points. |
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Post by johnsmith on Feb 11, 2023 15:11:05 GMT
novichok - a really poisonous substance, that apparently doesn't kill anyone, just makes them sick.
Russia has always said that it was willing to supply gas to Europe. Russia didn't stop supplying gas, it was Poland that shut down one pipeline, Ukraine shut down another.
Europe put sanctions on buying pipeline gas and then switched to buying LNG, diesel and other stuff from Russia. The sanctions also didn't go into effect until early Dec and Russia fulfilled all it's contracts.
Russia even offered to start supplying NG via the one remaining Nordstorm 2 line that hasn't been damaged, if Germany would certify it. Russia hasn't used gas as a weapon, though the US & it's allies sure use economic methods to attack (read - sanctions, cut off from global banking and sabotage).
The US if people haven't noticed has been busy making war around the world, non-stop for the last 20 years. First it was Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Libya, then Syria, now Russia.
In the middle there was space to bully - Venezuela (because we don't like Communists), Iran (Because they won't let American corps steal their oil) and carry out a dozen or so coups / color revolutions around the world.
Hersh - If he says he doesn't "believe Bin Ladin was responsible for 9/11", he probably has some good reasons. He is clued into the US National Security system pretty well.
I have never heard Hersh talk utter bollocks. The US government sure has talked a lot of bollocks; so who would you trust, the government that lies all the time (Vietnam, Iraq) or the guy who has been pretty diligent with his journalistic work for decades?
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Post by newtecher on Feb 11, 2023 15:20:52 GMT
novichok - a really poisonous substance, that apparently doesn't kill anyone, just makes them sick. Russia has always said that it was willing to supply gas to Europe. Russia didn't stop supplying gas, it was Poland that shut down one pipeline, Ukraine shut down another. Please read up on this. Novichok killed a woman in Britain, who was not the intended target. Almost killed Navalny in Russia. Russia reduced gas flows through Nordsteam 1 to 20% of capacity in the summer, when Germany was eager to fill up its storage, claiming maintenance issues (e.g., www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-we-hope-nord-stream-1-turbine-will-be-installed-sooner-rather-than-later-2022-07-26/)The fact that US has lied and killed in the past does not mean it is always the villain. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 15:54:31 GMT
I can't believe anyone thinks this is an appropriate topic for an investment forum, even if it is off topic. PLEASE STOP THIS NOW.
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Post by chang on Feb 11, 2023 16:30:08 GMT
Agreed. There might be investment-related opportunities, but that's not what is being discussed. The thread has been locked.
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