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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 14:30:46 GMT
I haven't kept up with small cap indexes, but from years ago, SV provided relatively good income distristributions. Vanguard's tax-managed SC mutual fund followed a S&P index and performed better than its R2000 mutual fund. Fidelity had a popular small cap retirement fund with good management. All this happened at least twenty years ago, and my investment interests have moved away from diversification and the 9-box model.
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Post by johntaylor on Jan 28, 2023 14:42:53 GMT
The argument for active mgt seems stronger for small caps, so am considering stuff like PRVIX
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Post by Fearchar on Jan 28, 2023 16:04:22 GMT
VIOV correlates about 0.98 with VBR over the last 3 years. VIOV correlates about 0.86 with VOO VBR correlates about 0.91 with VOO
CFRA ranks VBR over VIOV which seems odd as it's their own index! CFRA ranks VOO much higher than either VBR or VIOV. New Constructs ranks VBR at 31% and VIOV at 20% while they rank VOO at 66%
So, I'm sticking with JQUA and VFMF(X), but would consider COWZ too.
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Post by Fearchar on Jan 28, 2023 16:15:09 GMT
There is no assessment of PRVIX other than Morning Star, who is neutral and not especially reliable. However, over the last 3 year it correlated about 0.99 with FSMD, JMEE and SMLF.
New Constructs ranks SMLF the highest at 89%. FSMD and JMEE are ranked at 45%.
CFRA also ranks SMLF much higher (4*) than FSMD and JMEE (3 and 2*).
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Post by Chahta on Jan 28, 2023 16:24:26 GMT
VOO is a LC not SC as this thread is about. Fearchar , who is CFRA?
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Post by chang on Jan 28, 2023 16:34:34 GMT
The argument for active mgt seems stronger for small caps, so am considering stuff like PRVIX I’m not so sure. On the one hand, it is easier to unearth a great, hidden SC pick, since the SC universe is so vast, many companies are not covered by analysts, and the amount / quality of corporate information publicly available is much less. On the other hand, for exactly the same reasons, successful active management is challenging. In addition, actively managed SC funds generally have high ERs which is another hurdle. I might consider one of the new DFA ETFs (eg DFSV). While I’m not big on quant funds, I would also look at BRSVX, which has a fairly long history.
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Post by Fearchar on Jan 28, 2023 16:46:27 GMT
CFRA is a independent forensic and fundamental investment research company. www.cfraresearch.com/.... also earlier I thought they were owned by SPGI, but actually they bought our the unit of SPGI.
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Post by Chahta on Jan 31, 2023 13:41:51 GMT
Went back and thought about what I owned previously. BFSIX is a small cap growth doing very well this year. Been probably 10 years since I owned it.
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Post by belchingthealphabet on Feb 2, 2023 8:39:25 GMT
Small-caps. No more small cap funds for me. Too volatile. I hold a couple of single stocks that qualify as small-cap. If you do your homework, you can find a winner and let it run. I'm keeping the stakes deliberately LOW in small-caps. Regional bank, clothing maker, specialty office REIT. Other corners of the general market surely offer some good small-cap prospects. Small-cap funds lead me to too much indigestion.
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Post by johntaylor on Feb 5, 2023 17:01:32 GMT
S Fund up YTD
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Post by mnfish on May 28, 2023 13:12:24 GMT
From Wells
Russel 2000 RTY has underperformed SPX by 7.4% YTD Some pundits are advising to take advantage of this but Wells advises not yet and they currently have a Most Unfavorable rating on small cap Weaker balance sheets, less reliable cash flow, tougher credit and loan conditions, narrower product lines, inability to buy back stock Current number of Russell 2000 companies with negative trailing 12mo earnings is now over 40% compared to a 20yr avg of about 30%
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Post by uncleharley on May 28, 2023 15:22:19 GMT
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Post by johntaylor on May 30, 2023 15:50:40 GMT
DJ TSM up 3.5 percent
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Post by oldskeet on Jun 27, 2023 23:37:21 GMT
Hi guys. A heads up. My small & mid cap sleeve found in the growth area of my portfolio has started an upward move over the past couple of days. Let's hope it continues as I feel the smids are oversold and perhaps money is starting to rotate into them.
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Post by fritzo489 on Jun 28, 2023 0:26:45 GMT
I would agree with oldskeet on his heads up & hope it continues !
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Post by chang on Jun 28, 2023 12:02:27 GMT
Hi guys. A heads up. My small & mid cap sleeve found in the growth area of my portfolio has started an upward move over the past couple of days. Let's hope it continues as I feel the smids are oversold and perhaps money is starting to rotate into them. When I retired three years ago, and also used the Covid crash to restructure and simplify my portfolio (and greatly improve tax efficiency), I decided to leave SC and MC out altogether. From what I could see, SC exposure brings a lot more volatility for a potentially minor, long-term benefit. Hence, I thought, what's wrong with all all-LC portfolio for a retiree? Now that I'm set to go back to work for a few years, I'll have a little extra money to invest, and a few more IRA contributions to make. So I could think about an SC/MC position, but I'm not at all sold on it. In any case, I'm not sure I've ever found an actively managed fund that consistently and in the long term has beaten the index. Looking at the index VO, M* puts it in the top 18-22% of the MC category over 5-10-15 years. That's pretty telling, when the index is in the top quintile of all MC funds. (Even more impressively, the index VBR is in the top 14-15% of the SCV category over 10-15 years!)
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Post by Chahta on Jun 28, 2023 13:35:25 GMT
Hi guys. A heads up. My small & mid cap sleeve found in the growth area of my portfolio has started an upward move over the past couple of days. Let's hope it continues as I feel the smids are oversold and perhaps money is starting to rotate into them. When I retired three years ago, and also used the Covid crash to restructure and simplify my portfolio (and greatly improve tax efficiency), I decided to leave SC and MC out altogether. From what I could see, SC exposure brings a lot more volatility for a potentially minor, long-term benefit. Hence, I thought, what's wrong with all all-LC portfolio for a retiree? Now that I'm set to go back to work for a few years, I'll have a little extra money to invest, and a few more IRA contributions to make. So I could think about an SC/MC position, but I'm not at all sold on it. In any case, I'm not sure I've ever found an actively managed fund that consistently and in the long term has beaten the index. Looking at the index VO, M* puts it in the top 18-22% of the MC category over 5-10-15 years. That's pretty telling, when the index is in the top quintile of all MC funds. (Even more impressively, the index VBR is in the top 14-15% of the SCV category over 10-15 years!) SPY and VTI pretty much track each other for 10 years. VTI has SC, SPY does not. I own SC and MC separately from LC (SCHX mostly LC). I’m not sold on SC and MC are worth holding onto long term. The SC does pay a nice dividend if that is important.
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Post by steadyeddy on Jun 28, 2023 14:43:43 GMT
I only hold VTI/ITOT i.e., total stock market - and it has 17% MC/SC which is sufficient for me. I do not hold any MC/SC positions.
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Post by johntaylor on Jul 3, 2023 15:41:18 GMT
S Fund only up 4 percent YTD
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Post by boarshead on Jul 3, 2023 16:12:48 GMT
That reflects May 31 figures. S Fund was up over 8% in June.
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Post by johntaylor on Jul 4, 2023 13:43:31 GMT
Yep, pondering allocation shift if a velocity argument develops
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Post by chang on Jul 4, 2023 13:55:23 GMT
If you are a conservative investor, you may want to check out David Snowball's comment in the same MFO article quoted by chang regarding Palm Valley Capital (PVCMX): It's an "absolute-value small-cap fund that is managed by Eric Cinnamond and Jayme Wiggins. Nominally the fund is four years old, which is wildly misleading. Mr. Cinnamond and, most recently, Mr. Wiggins have successfully pursued this strategy in four distinct mutual funds for a quarter century. The core distinction is this: the managers only buy stocks that are trading at a truly substantial discount to their fair value. If there are no appropriately priced opportunities, they invest the portfolio in cash and cash-like securities. That makes them incredibly frustrating to own when markets are soaring and they’re steadily unloading overpriced portfolio holdings in favor of cash. Indeed, Mr. Cinnamond liquidated one fund because he felt it unfair to charge investors for equity investments when only cash made sense.
The new fund is a five-star Great Owl that returned 3.2% in 2022, while its average peer lost 9.8%. That’s especially striking because the portfolio is still only 19% investing in stocks, mostly small- to micro-cap value stocks."I looked at PVCMX. It’s chart is pretty uninspiring, and it gets 1* from M*. It got off to a good start, as brand new funds often do, but I can’t see much attraction to it. AVUV has crushed it.
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Post by fred495 on Jul 4, 2023 15:48:44 GMT
If you are a conservative investor, you may want to check out David Snowball's comment in the same MFO article quoted by chang regarding Palm Valley Capital (PVCMX): It's an "absolute-value small-cap fund that is managed by Eric Cinnamond and Jayme Wiggins. Nominally the fund is four years old, which is wildly misleading. Mr. Cinnamond and, most recently, Mr. Wiggins have successfully pursued this strategy in four distinct mutual funds for a quarter century. The core distinction is this: the managers only buy stocks that are trading at a truly substantial discount to their fair value. If there are no appropriately priced opportunities, they invest the portfolio in cash and cash-like securities. That makes them incredibly frustrating to own when markets are soaring and they’re steadily unloading overpriced portfolio holdings in favor of cash. Indeed, Mr. Cinnamond liquidated one fund because he felt it unfair to charge investors for equity investments when only cash made sense.
The new fund is a five-star Great Owl that returned 3.2% in 2022, while its average peer lost 9.8%. That’s especially striking because the portfolio is still only 19% investing in stocks, mostly small- to micro-cap value stocks."I looked at PVCMX. It’s chart is pretty uninspiring, and it gets 1* from M*. It got off to a good start, as brand new funds often do, but I can’t see much attraction to it. AVUV has crushed it.
Yes, it did. But, as a retired and conservative investor, I am not going to invest in a fund like AVUV that has a standard deviation, per Portfolio Visualizer, of 30.2%, and in 2020 had a max. drawdown of 42.4%.
Sorry, but at this stage of my life I am not particularly interested in highly volatile funds that may or may not "crush" other "uninspiring" funds like PVCMX. Since I don't need a lot more money, I prefer to err on the side of caution. Sound familiar, chang?
Good luck,
Fred
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Post by racqueteer on Jul 4, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
I looked at PVCMX. It’s chart is pretty uninspiring, and it gets 1* from M*. It got off to a good start, as brand new funds often do, but I can’t see much attraction to it. AVUV has crushed it.
Yes, it did. But, as a retired and conservative investor, I am not going to invest in a fund like AVUV that has a standard deviation, per Portfolio Visualizer, of 30.2%, and in 2020 had a max. drawdown of 42.4%.
Sorry, but at this stage of my life I am not particularly interested in highly volatile funds that may or may not "crush" other "uninspiring" funds like PVCMX. Since I don't need a lot more money, I prefer to err on the side of caution. Sound familiar, chang?
Good luck,
Fred
As with most things, a lot depends on how closely one wants to hover over something and be active with it. That really has a lot to do with one's choices. You first have to learn YOU and THEN look at investments which fit your needs. There is unlikely to be a 'best for everyone' choice.
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Post by chang on Jul 4, 2023 16:16:12 GMT
fred495 That fund is just too expensive to achieve money market like returns. I don’t take crazy risks either. But “risk” to me means risk of permanent loss of capital, not temporary loss of capital — which is inevitable if one expects a return. “Risky” funds are often ones that look like gimmicks and scams. IOFIX comes to mind. I don’t see the point of small cap fund that’s so conservative that it almost behaves like a bear market fund. Better just to avoid small caps altogether. Actually I am considering a new SC allocation, partly based on valuations, and also because I expect to start drawing a paycheck again. AVUV is the front runner for a taxable account.
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Post by fred495 on Jul 4, 2023 16:33:33 GMT
chang, as raqueteer said: "There is unlikely to be a 'best for everyone' choice." Right now, capital preservation is my top priority.
AVUV would be too volatile to let me sleep well at night. At my age, a very important consideration.
But, good luck,
Fred
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Post by chang on Jul 18, 2023 16:26:09 GMT
Hi guys. A heads up. My small & mid cap sleeve found in the growth area of my portfolio has started an upward move over the past couple of days. Let's hope it continues as I feel the smids are oversold and perhaps money is starting to rotate into them. It seems oldskeet may have nailed it. I’ve made two buys of AVUV and I’m going to have to make another one soon, if I keep to my resolution to buy every 3-5% higher.
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Post by johntaylor on Jul 18, 2023 17:02:59 GMT
Adjusted TSP to reflect DJTSM up 12 percent (velocity? knock on wood) and EAFE up 11 percent
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Post by racqueteer on Jul 18, 2023 18:25:24 GMT
Yeah, I've added as well. I figure the caution was already in the SC space for a pullback, and there's some catching up to do if we ARE out of the woods. Bought some AVUV and added to the PRNHX I owned.
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Post by Norbert on Jul 18, 2023 18:50:53 GMT
fred495 That fund is just too expensive to achieve money market like returns. I don’t take crazy risks either. But “risk” to me means risk of permanent loss of capital, not temporary loss of capital — which is inevitable if one expects a return. “Risky” funds are often ones that look like gimmicks and scams. IOFIX comes to mind. I don’t see the point of small cap fund that’s so conservative that it almost behaves like a bear market fund. Better just to avoid small caps altogether. Actually I am considering a new SC allocation, partly based on valuations, and also because I expect to start drawing a paycheck again. AVUV is the front runner for a taxable account. Took a quick look at PVCMX. Don't know why it's a 1-star fund, as it has outperformed IWN, the Russell 2000 small cap value ETF. www.palmvalleycapital.com/mutual-fundThe fund doesn't appear to be a crazy black box like IOFIX. The managers are allowed to get heavy into cash, but I think that's about the extent of it. Otherwise the methodology just involves careful stock selection. Yes, the returns have been low since after the initial startup pop. Don't know how they kept the boat so steady in rough waters. Have been burned before by "absolute return" funds like this one and will not be buying it. AVUV does look interesting. SCs look cheap as most capital had been flowing into LCG. Thanks for bringing AVUV to my attention. N.
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