rumi
Ensign
Posts: 40
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Post by rumi on Oct 25, 2022 19:15:11 GMT
Question: Which CEFs are you holding? Maybe I can learn some new ticker names and research them.
I'll go first: PDI PTY PCN PDO
I'm currently overweight PDI, but I want to add to the other three until they're each about 25%. My CEF portfolio is roughly one quarter of my liquid net worth. The rest is cash sitting in my bank and brokerage account. Ready to be deployed. I currently do not own any stocks or CEFs. Just these four CEFs.
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Post by ECE Prof on Oct 25, 2022 19:49:08 GMT
Question: Which CEFs are you holding?Maybe I can learn some new ticker names and research them. I'll go first: PDI PTY PCN PDO I'm currently overweight PDI, but I want to add to the other three until they're each about 25%. My CEF portfolio is roughly one quarter of my liquid net worth. The rest is cash sitting in my bank and brokerage account. Ready to be deployed. I currently do not own any stocks or CEFs. Just these four CEFs. I have CLM, MHI, UTG, ECC, and PDI.
Remember that I mentioned the BDC, ARCC, yesterday. It has jumped up more than 5% today. I have not read any news on that so far. People need yield, and buy them a bunch of ARCC because it is the largest size BDC. Besides, a lot of institutional investors - mainly big banks - invest in them. Goldman has invested 1.6 billion in ARCC. I am a small potato.
Add/Edit: Q3 earnings match the expectations, and an analyst says that it is undervalued.
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rumi
Ensign
Posts: 40
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Post by rumi on Oct 25, 2022 20:45:51 GMT
Hi ECE Prof, Two of you holdsing, CLM and ECC, seem to have share prices in perpetual decline. They both have very high yields, 27% and 16%. Their distribution history seems a bit shaky. Far less reliable than the steady streams of income that PIMCO bonds provide. So I wanted to ask you; why are you holding these two? Just out of curiosity.
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Post by johnsmith on Oct 25, 2022 20:50:55 GMT
Question: Which CEFs are you holding?Maybe I can learn some new ticker names and research them. I'll go first: PDI PTY PCN PDO I'm currently overweight PDI, but I want to add to the other three until they're each about 25%. My CEF portfolio is roughly one quarter of my liquid net worth. The rest is cash sitting in my bank and brokerage account. Ready to be deployed. I currently do not own any stocks or CEFs. Just these four CEFs. Other than the Pimco usuals - UTG, JOF Looking at BST, maybe BSTZ
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Post by steelpony10 on Oct 25, 2022 21:07:59 GMT
rumi , Assuming you’re not investing in CEF’s to trade on the discounts or for long term capital gains, in the case of CLM and ECC if the payouts vary they probably will still be above any PIMCO distributions. So how about just pure greed or committing less money to equal a PIMCO distribution? We invested in CLM during the bank crisis at a near 50%? value swoon and received all our investment back in probably 3 years. It’s been free money for us since about 2012-13. CLM has been around since the late 80’s. If anything is uncomfortable for you when investing in CEF’s then skip the CLM and ECC types. As a heads up CLM is lowering it’s payout for 2023. They adjust theirs yearly usually. In regards to your question check out these others some of which we currently hold or may in the future from our current watch list: GOF, DNP, ETV, PDT and BME. Run of the mill PIMCO CEF’s PFL and PFN. New CEF’s PAXS and RSF.
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Post by ECE Prof on Oct 25, 2022 21:56:24 GMT
Hi ECE Prof , Two of you holdsing, CLM and ECC, seem to have share prices in perpetual decline. They both have very high yields, 27% and 16%. Their distribution history seems a bit shaky. Far less reliable than the steady streams of income that PIMCO bonds provide. So I wanted to ask you; why are you holding these two? Just out of curiosity. I wiped out the loss in ECC just last month. I bought CLM just above $8/sh recently. They would come back someday. CLM is likely to on high premium now because the market is recovering. UTG went down after I bought, and it has recovered now. I have gained. But, I am not selling. I have invested in these for income, not for “Total Return.” In the long run, once we get the money back (as steelpony10 says), the money that comes after that is all free income.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2022 0:28:17 GMT
After almost 60 years of chasing performance and total-return, I now am happily and comfortably a passive (but not comatose) income investor of CEFs, sleeping well and spending minimal time on all this. My investment goal is 8+% (on cost) reliable monthly income (which is being met!) with portfolio growth of minor importance. Volatility is not important except when it presents a smart buy/sell action. There is a tilt toward leveraged fixed-income and value equity. About 25% of the monthly income is reinvested manually soon after month-start.
IRA-Roth ..... BDJ equities CII equities EVT equities UTF utilities/infrastructure JRI real assets and FI RQI real estate RNP real estate and FI
IRA-Rollover ..... PFN FI corporate PAXS FI multisector PDI FI multisector PDO FI multisector HYB FI high-yield DFP FI preferred PTA FI preferred XFLT FI CLO
note: Perhaps will be selling CII and RNP soon simply due to their overlap with others plus want to reduce further my time spent tracking all this.
--- Frank
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Post by ECE Prof on Oct 26, 2022 0:42:17 GMT
Frank "I now am happily and comfortably a passive (but not comatose) income investor of CEFs, sleeping well and spending minimal time on all this. The investment goal is 8+% (on cost) reliable monthly income (which is being met!) with portfolio growth of minor importance. Volatility is not important except when it offers a smart buy/sell action. There is a tilt toward leveraged fixed-income and value equity. About 25% of the monthly income is reinvested manually soon after month-start."
Frank: That is exactly my language, too. You are right on the money.
Why chase the mirage? They go up and down. Unless the fundamental change occurs like it happened to CLM in the late spring, why change anything? Besides, I just chose mostly PCI and PDI. The others are just light doses.
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Post by steelpony10 on Oct 26, 2022 1:20:17 GMT
@fpajerski ,
We’re practically twins. Lol.
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Post by ECE Prof on Oct 26, 2022 14:42:10 GMT
I found this morning that I had gain in CLM also in my Vanguard portfolios at the closing yesterday. It is going up again today. There goes the myth that it is a perpetual loser.
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rumi
Ensign
Posts: 40
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Post by rumi on Oct 28, 2022 14:46:06 GMT
So which CEFs are you holding? If anyone else wants to share the tickers, please do!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2022 15:31:47 GMT
I try to limit the number from any sponsor to avoid their portfolio overlap across funds. I like to buy IPOs with different themes and keep the ones I like. I only buy monthly payers. So many sponsors have gone the way of distributing ROC, which doesn't appeal to me. I recommend CC's monthly CEF Holdings thread on Fidelity Community forum. I look at various databases periodically to see what pops up. I own PDI, PAXS, TBLD, TEAF, and CPZ while watching a couple of others.
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Post by retiredat48 on Oct 28, 2022 16:51:26 GMT
My Current CEF Holdings:
(CEF's only)...
DSL (small holding)
HPS
JPI
NTG
PDI...largest holding
PFN
PDO
PTY
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Past month...no changes; bought some PDI for my youngest brother's recent-retiree account conversion from growth, to more income. (First time he has ever listened to me!)
R48
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Post by uncleharley on Oct 28, 2022 17:06:34 GMT
I own shares in PDI, PDO, & UTG.
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Post by ECE Prof on Oct 28, 2022 17:48:51 GMT
No change. Same ones as I listed on the top. I added some more shares of UTG in my taxable account.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2022 0:59:16 GMT
PDI, PDO, JSD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2022 2:55:54 GMT
Mostly in PDI, rest is minor monies.
PDI RCS PFN DSL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 8:15:16 GMT
After almost 60 years of chasing performance and total-return, I now am happily and comfortably a passive (but not comatose) income investor of CEFs, sleeping well and spending minimal time on all this. My investment goal is 8+% (on cost) reliable monthly income (which is being amply met!) with portfolio growth of secondary importance. Volatility is only important to me when it presents a smart buy/sell action. There is a tilt here toward leveraged fixed-income and value equity. About 25% of the monthly income is reinvested manually soon after month-start.
IRA-Roth ..... BDJ equities EVT equities UTF utilities/infrastructure JRI real assets and FI RQI real estate RNP real estate and FI
note: last month, sold CII (just to simplify). this month, will replace RNP and RQI with RLTY (to simplify, similar CEF with larger yield and discount).
IRA-Rollover ..... PAXS FI multisector PDI FI multisector PDO FI multisector WDI FI multisector PFN FI corporate HYB FI high-yield PTA FI preferred XFLT FI CLO
note: last month, replaced DFP with WDI (more MS with larger yield and discount).
--- Frank
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Post by Ultima Thule on Dec 30, 2022 18:27:12 GMT
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Post by xray on Dec 31, 2022 19:01:06 GMT
rumi, Not wanting to throw cold water on this parade of PIMCO investors but (from a earlier post today on another string):------------------------------------------------------------------- PDI: Filing Date Transaction Date Insider Name Ownership Type Securities Nature of transaction Volume or Value Price Dec 22/22 Dec 21/22 Stracke Thibault Christian Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 6,000 $18.98 May 19/22 May 18/22 Stracke Thibault Christian Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P -Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 7,500 $21.34 Mar 14/22 Mar 11/22 Stracke Thibault Christian Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 6,000 $22.78 Feb 8/22 Feb 7/22 Stracke Thibault Christian Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 6,000 $25.14 PDO: Filing Date Transaction Date Insider Name Ownership Type Securities Nature of transaction Volume or Value Price Dec 15/22 Dec 14/22rac98g, Meggers JulieAnnIndirect Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 20,000 $14.29Sep 13/22 Sep 13/22 Roman Emmanuel Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 23,401 $14.93Sep 13/22 Sep 12/22 Roman Emmanuel Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 46,599 $15.00Aug 5/22 Aug 5/22 Meggers Julie Ann Indirect Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 6,500 $15.42Mar 24/22 Mar 23/22 Meggers Julie Ann Indirect Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 13,000 $16.76Feb 10/22 Feb 9/22 Stracke Thibault Christian Direct Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 15,000 $18.10Jan 28/22 Jan 26/22 Fisher David Nichols III Indirect Ownership COMMON SHARES P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 5,345 $18.70Jan 19/22 Jan 18/22 Rappaport Alan Direct Ownership Common Shares P - Open market or private purchase Footnote and/or Remark 2,500 $19.20--------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment: We have to read the data above by the "date"(bottom to top) and take notice (using PDO as example shown above that we have"excessive shares being purchased" periodically vs higher MktPrc being paid) that the MktPrc paid has been going much lower over "The past year timeframe". Investors would be wise IMHO to wait until the dust settles before buying more shares over their "initial Buy" (again IMHO). Share price does not initially normally change much (in the turnaround cycle) when the MktPrc finally bottoms.... Add to this that the discount remains very strong (NAV 13.29 with MktPrc 12.77 COB Friday) indicating that many current investors are still going to the sidelines (waiting) IMHO.... Appears all of the CEF portfolio's shown are heavily slanted to PIMCO securities. Currently, many portfolio's out there appear to be 50% securities/Bonds and 50% cash (and where the cash is to be used in the 1st Qtr of 2023). Many of us are still waiting for the market to turn (apparently next Qtr or next) and turn to " DISTRIBUTIONS" related securities (as income oriented investors) where the MktPrc's (along with the distributions) have no where to hide but go "UP" IMHO.... We should take notice that the " Managers" of a lot of the quality CEF's are doing quite well in analyzing the market (against their individual CEF's). When we play the "numb3rs" against "last years" numb3rs, many are near or exceeding the MktPrc NAV's or Book values (72%). The MktPrc's are always excluded from analysis as the MktPrc's are panic driven with the volatility and the traders. We have heard some very bad numb3rs from about 35-65% losses in the market. Not something any of us would like to see or experience IMHO. Projections from some analysts predict another 10-15% down cycle before the carnage ends.... Live Long and Prosper....
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Post by xray on Dec 31, 2022 19:05:17 GMT
Reuters Bond selloff 'unambiguously bad for all assets' -CIO Fri, December 30, 2022, 3:16 PM EST
STORY: "Since the ECB (European Central Bank) came out with their very hawkish policy, and the BOJ (Bank of Japan) raised their target for ten-year from twenty-five basis points to fifty, the global bond market's been selling off. And a lot of investors think, 'oh it's bad for tech stocks,' but it's unambiguously bad for, really, all assets," Hatfield told Reuters.
Wall Street was pulled lower by losses in growth and healthcare shares on the final trading day of a tough year, which was marked by aggressive interest-rate hikes to curb inflation, the Russia-Ukraine war and recession fears. The three main indexes are set for their first annual drop after three straight years of gains as an era of loose monetary policy came to an end following the fastest pace of rate hikes by the Federal Reserve since the 1980s. Growth stocks have been under pressure from rising yields for much of 2022 and have underperformed their economically-linked value peers in a reversal of a trend that has lasted for much of the past decade. The S&P 500 growth index .IGX is down about 30.5% this year, while the value index .IVX has fallen just 7.7%, with investors preferring high dividend-yielding sectors with steady earnings such as energy.
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rumi
Ensign
Posts: 40
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Post by rumi on Jan 3, 2023 6:29:13 GMT
Thanks for sharing. Any reason why you don't have a single PIMCO CEF?
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Post by Ultima Thule on Jan 3, 2023 15:59:18 GMT
Thanks for sharing. Any reason why you don't have a single PIMCO CEF? I like discount, but not so much about ROC.
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Post by shridog on Jan 4, 2023 14:45:27 GMT
My CEFs in order of size. PDI PDO PFN PHK RCS XFLT PAXS This represents 14% of my portfolio which is 98% of our total investment accounts.
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rumi
Ensign
Posts: 40
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Post by rumi on Jan 4, 2023 16:11:20 GMT
My CEFs in order of size. PDI PDO PFN PHK RCS XFLT PAXS This represents 14% of my portfolio which is 98% of our total investment accounts.Some nice tickers in there, well done. This represents 14% of my portfolio which is 98% of our total investment accounts."What did you mean by this exactly? How can these CEFs make up 14% of your portfolio and also 98% of your investment accounts?
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Post by shridog on Jan 5, 2023 17:55:14 GMT
Sorry for the confusion. The portfolio makes up 98% of our liquid assets. Only income is from SS and portfolio. 80 years old. BTW did sell RCS and PFN yesterday. Just felt they had the highest risk of a divy cut. Gut feel by looking at last couple months of divy coverage and UNII. Put that with expectation of higher short term interest rates. Most likely move that money into preferreds that yield 9+%. Lastly, divy income is roughly 6X what we need for normal expenses.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2023 5:48:28 GMT
In IRA-Rollover/Roth accounts tailored toward passive (but not comatose) income-investing. The fund values are similar in size. All wrap FI assets except for UTF. The monthy distributions (now at 10+% of cost) are 25% in excess of what is needed monthly for living, with this excess reinvested soon after month-start.
PAXS multisector
PDO multisector
WDI multisector
PFN corporate
PTA preferreds
ARDC high-yield / CLOs / senior loans
XFLT CLOs / senior loans
UTF utility / infrastructure
In early February .... added to ARDC, PTA, WDI.
Watchlist: RLTY (RE), HYB (FI - HY) and also DMO, KIO (since CapeCod owns these).
--- Frank
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Post by richardsok on Mar 2, 2023 20:16:53 GMT
PHK and FFC, both newly purchased.... and FFC is on thin ice.
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Post by johnsmith on Mar 2, 2023 20:43:04 GMT
My holdings haven't changed since the first post: PDI, PDO, PAXS, PTY, JOF.
I am looking at - RMT
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Post by uncleharley on Mar 2, 2023 21:55:54 GMT
PDI, PDO, & PFN are the ones I am holding in my IRA.
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