Windsor VWNDX / VWNEX

[chang]

Any owners or opinions on this fund? More valuey and less dividend focused than VEIPX / VEIRX, with a very slightly better record in recent years.

[yogibearbull]

Windsor/VWNDX is one of those past great funds. I used to follow it when John Neff was running it in ancient times*, but it has been so-so after that (story similar to another famous fund, Fido Magellan). BTW, after John Neff left, he said publicly that he was disappointed by how the fund was run after him. Vanguard kept it closed for many years but finally opened it after persistent outflows (see M* Quote page graph under the chart) - it is still a large fund at $23 billion AUM. Current advisors are Wellington Management (70% AUM) and Pzena (30% AUM) and they run it in value/deep-value style with fairly high volatility. It has a clone Windsor II/VWNAX that is now TWICE as big and also has an interesting history.

*I once commented in media on a couple of CEFs Neff was also running at the time, and at least he responded.

[Mustang]

I've owned Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) a very long time. It was the first fund I bought and it is still one of my core funds. It is usually more value oriented but it moved into the blend category last year. It is currently rated 5-star Gold by Morningstar. It has an 11.6% 10-year return, a 12.0% 5-year return and a 16.0% 3-year return. I have paired it with Wellesley Income Fund (VWIAX). Here are some of the things writers have said about them. Both were part of Morningstar’s fantastic 43 out of 8,000 funds (2017). Kiplinger (2019) ranked Wellington as one of their 25 favorite funds. U.S. News and World Report (2019) ranked Wellington third out of 715 moderate-allocation funds. In September 2020 it rated both as one of the “7 Best Balanced Funds to Pick Right Now.” In July 2021, The Balance rated both as the best funds for long-term investors.

[chang]

Dec 14, 2021 14:21:38 GMT yogibearbull said:

Windsor/VWNDX is one of those past great funds. I used to follow it when John Neff was running it in ancient times*, but it has been so-so after that (story similar to another famous fund, Fido Magellan). BTW, after John Neff left, he said publicly that he was disappointed by how the fund was run after him. Vanguard kept it closed for many years but finally opened it after persistent outflows (see M* Quote page graph under the chart) - it is still a large fund at $23 billion AUM. Current advisors are Wellington Management (70% AUM) and Pzena (30% AUM) and they run it in value/deep-value style with fairly high volatility. It has a clone Windsor II/VWNAX that is now TWICE as big and also has an interesting history.

*I once commented in media on a couple of CEFs Neff was also running at the time, and at least he responded.

yogibearbull I have always preferred Windsor to Windsor II, and never more than now. VWNDX has attractive management imo:
investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/portfolio/vwnex

while VWNFX is all over the place with 4 advisors and 8 managers:
investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/portfolio/vwnfx

Windsor hasn't always killed it (has an value fund?) but it's never imploded like many, is cheap, and has always been fairly true to form.

Windsor II was supposed to be a more-or-less similar alternative, and for reasons I don't know grew to be a much bigger fund, but I've never seen it as better than Windsor.

Anyway, I'm looking to add to Value in my Vanguard IRA, so good ol' Windsor naturally came to mind.
 

[chang]

Dec 15, 2021 3:14:46 GMT Mustang said:

I've owned Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) a very long time. It was the first fund I bought and it is still one of my core funds. It is usually more value oriented but it moved into the blend category last year. It is currently rated 5-star Gold by Morningstar. It has an 11.6% 10-year return, a 12.0% 5-year return and a 16.0% 3-year return. I have paired it with Wellesley Income Fund (VWIAX). Here are some of the things writers have said about them. Both were part of Morningstar’s fantastic 43 out of 8,000 funds (2017). Kiplinger (2019) ranked Wellington as one of their 25 favorite funds. U.S. News and World Report (2019) ranked Wellington third out of 715 moderate-allocation funds. In September 2020 it rated both as one of the “7 Best Balanced Funds to Pick Right Now.” In July 2021, The Balance rated both as the best funds for long-term investors.

Okayyyy ... but I'm talking about Windsor.

[chang]

Dec 14, 2021 14:21:38 GMT yogibearbull said:

Windsor/VWNDX is one of those past great funds. I used to follow it when John Neff was running it in ancient times*, but it has been so-so after that (story similar to another famous fund, Fido Magellan). 

I'm not sure if "so-so" is entirely fair. Here's a 10Y chart of the first half dozen value funds I could think of, vs. VWNDX. The two Windsors top the group. (Over different time periods, naturally, things jump around a bit.)

[Mustang]

Dec 15, 2021 8:51:43 GMT chang said:

Dec 15, 2021 3:14:46 GMT Mustang said:

I've owned Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) a very long time. It was the first fund I bought and it is still one of my core funds. It is usually more value oriented but it moved into the blend category last year. It is currently rated 5-star Gold by Morningstar. It has an 11.6% 10-year return, a 12.0% 5-year return and a 16.0% 3-year return. I have paired it with Wellesley Income Fund (VWIAX). Here are some of the things writers have said about them. Both were part of Morningstar’s fantastic 43 out of 8,000 funds (2017). Kiplinger (2019) ranked Wellington as one of their 25 favorite funds. U.S. News and World Report (2019) ranked Wellington third out of 715 moderate-allocation funds. In September 2020 it rated both as one of the “7 Best Balanced Funds to Pick Right Now.” In July 2021, The Balance rated both as the best funds for long-term investors.

Okayyyy ... but I'm talking about Windsor.

Oops.  I need to get used to these new glasses.

[Deleted]

Are you thinking of adding some value to your AA after 13 years of growth outperformance?

I have three dedicated value funds FLPSX, PARWX and SCHD.

I am counting on my Blend funds to give me value exposure - PRBLX, Wellington etc. So I am adding value exposure via blend.

Windsor - 30% by Pzena is deep value and rest is I guess regular value. Deep value can have very very long periods of under performance. I do not have patience for it.

[chang]

"Are you thinking of adding some value to your AA after 13 years of growth outperformance?"

Yep, you could put it that way. My overall portfolio is reasonably well balanced, but my IRAs are growth biased. My smallish Roth is 100% TRGOX, and that’s fine. In one of my two TIRAs I own VWUAX, a particularly volatile growth fund. That's the one I'm thinking of cannibalizing to buy some Windsor.

[Deleted]

One value fund, that I recently added, is PARWX.

Though PARWX also has a newer manager so cannot say much about his performance.

On Windsor, M* says good things about recent manager change (in 2019) for the Wellington's 70% part of portfolio.

[roi2020]

Dec 15, 2021 22:43:54 GMT @waffle said:

One value fund, that I recently added, is PARWX.

Though PARWX also has a newer manager so cannot say much about his performance.

On Windsor, M* says good things about recent manager change (in 2019) for the Wellington's 70% part of portfolio.

Longtime PARWX manager Jerry Dodson retired in December 2020.
The current manager, Billy Hwan, implements a relative value approach while Mr. Dodson utilized a contrarian, high-conviction strategy.
Mr. Hwan has a lot of industry experience but he still must prove his skills here.

[chang]

Windsor II has a better record than Windsor in recent years, for (I think) the simple reason that it’s more blendy and holds things like Microsoft, Google, Apple. Looking forward and not backward, I’d have to pick Windsor. Windsor II is larger, with a ridiculous number of managers, and more expensive.

Among Windsor, Windsor II, Equity Income (VEIPX/VEIRX) and the Value Index (VVIAX), I would go with Windsor … especially as a barbell-companion to VWUAX (US Growth). Any thoughts pro or con?

Edit: the funds for this will be coming from Wellesley VWIAX. The last month's result for VWIAX versus these other value equity funds shows that Wellesley's bonds are causing it a lot of pain ... and why should that change in 2022?

[chang]

Bump... no thoughts about Wellesley's woes? Windsor winning? Growth gagging and Windsor winning?

Here's a brief comparison ... looks like VEIPX is nearly the equity sleeve of Wellesley VWIAX.

[Deleted]

In addition to Windsor and PARWX, Dodge and cox and Oakmark are other respected value shops/funds.

For a value fund - Kind of hard to chose among VWNDX, PARWX, DODGX and OAKMX. Based on low E/R - Windsor and DODGX look good.

[anitya]

Keep it simple. Just pile into SCHD or a comparable ETF.

[chang]

Just happened to see this post, made almost two years ago exactly. VWNEX was (per M* data) in the top 26% and 25% for 2022 and 2023 YTD. TR from 1-week to 10-years falls in the top quartile during almost every category.

I'm keeping Windsor I & II together in my IRA, because they're so different; hence, I'm splitting my bets. Windsor is actually the smaller (and cheaper) fund. In the vast minefield of value funds*, I think you can do a lot worse.

(* Anyone remember Muhlenkamp, Oak Value, Torray, Clipper, Longleaf, Dreman Large Value, [I'm sure I've forgotten some...]?)

[roi2020]

From M* Analyst Report dated 02-13-23:

"Since Palmer took the helm here for Wellington, the fund’s returns have been very strong.
From Jan. 1, 2019, through Jan. 31, 2023, the fund’s investor shares surged an annualized 16.6%, which crushed the Russell 1000 Value Index’s 11.9%
and average large-value Morningstar Category peer’s 12.2% gains."

In late 2021, Vanguard introduced three "Advice Select" funds available exclusively to clients enrolled in certain advice programs.
FWIW, Vanguard must think highly of Mr. Palmer since he was tapped to manage Vanguard Advice Select Global Value Fund (VAGVX).

I usually prioritize 10 Yr and/or 15 Yr performance when evaluating funds.
Below I compared the performance of Vanguard Windsor and Windsor II with two popular Large Value funds since Palmer took the reins.
www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&sl=1abyafR1B1N3Iov8QIrIcM

Below I compared the performance of the same funds since data became available for SCHD (Nov. 2011).
www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&sl=6xOLh4zlDsR8J0pDME0HWR

[anovice]

It baffles me that only one of the four managers has their own money in Windsor.

[roi2020]

David Palmer from Wellington has invested over $1M in Windsor.
Not one of the three managers from Pzena has invested in the fund.