Automatic investment at Fido - not available for all funds

[chang]

I noticed that automatic investment at Fidelity doesn't seem to be available for some funds; they don't show up in the dropdown box. I asked Fido if this was a website site, and they said no: some funds are not available for automatic investment. (I'm waiting on their response to my request for a few TF waivers.)

I'm not sure if there's any way to identify this in advance of making your first purchase.

[paulr888]

Chang .... I moved everything to Fidelity in Q4 2017. I remember when my account was still fresh some mutual funds did not show up as AIP eligible. Over time, I believe they became eligible. I recall my Financial Consultant telling me if a mutual fund does not show up on the list, there was a form that she could fill out for me that would make it happen. I would be persistent with them on this. They advertise you can do AIP into mutual funds only and one would assume all mutual funds. If a NTF mutual fund, the AIP is free. If a TF mutual fund, it costs $5. Now saying well that applies to some mutual funds and not others, well that does not contribute to customer satisfaction. Good luck with this.

Update:  I just looked under my AIP dropdown and I couldn't find a mutual fund I owned not on the dropdown list.  Forced me to count and I own 36 mutual funds. 

[chang]

paulr888 Interesting, the Fido rep didn't hint that they could change the situation.

NTF funds are always AIP-eligible. I frankly use AIP as a way of paying $5 instead of $50 for one-time purchases.

Of course, one way to "cheat" is to buy-and-convert: for example, if you already own DSEEX, you can buy DSENX (NTF) for free and then ask Fido to convert the DSENX shares to DSEEX and add to your existing position. They will do that (I've done it). Although, I am not sure how many times you can pull that stunt before they get annoyed with you.

That trick doesn't work with a fund that has no NTF class (DODGX, etc.). Then you have to pay $5. But if the fund isn't AIP-eligible, then you're stucking paying $50, and that's the situation I'm in....

[roi2020]

I don't know if this is a reliable way to determine whether a Fidelity platform mutual fund is eligible for $5 automatic investments. 

1) Select fund.

2) Scroll down page.

3) Click ‘Additional Important Information’.

4) Check ‘Automatic Investment’ fee listed in the Transaction Fee section.

[chang]

Jul 27, 2021 6:26:09 GMT roi2020 said:

I don't know if this is a reliable way to determine whether a Fidelity platform mutual fund is eligible for $5 automatic investments. 

1) Select fund.

2) Scroll down page.

3) Click ‘Additional Important Information’.

4) Check ‘Automatic Investment’ fee listed in the Transaction Fee section.

Good detective work! That's almost as hard to find as the complete monthly holdings of a Fido fund.

Interestingly, the fund in question says that it is available for AIP with a $5 fee. I contacted my Fido rep with this information, so hopefully they will give me a few TF waivers.

[anitya]

Jul 27, 2021 5:57:03 GMT chang said:

paulr888 Interesting, the Fido rep didn't hint that they could change the situation.

NTF funds are always AIP-eligible. I frankly use AIP as a way of paying $5 instead of $50 for one-time purchases.

Of course, one way to "cheat" is to buy-and-convert: for example, if you already own DSEEX, you can buy DSENX (NTF) for free and then ask Fido to convert the DSENX shares to DSEEX and add to your existing position. They will do that (I've done it). Although, I am not sure how many times you can pull that stunt before they get annoyed with you.

That trick doesn't work with a fund that has no NTF class (DODGX, etc.). Then you have to pay $5. But if the fund isn't AIP-eligible, then you're stucking paying $50, and that's the situation I'm in....

I suspect you will not get a push back, especially when you have a dedicated team.  I would rather have the convenience that comes with paying $5.  

When funds are closed to new investors, if you already do not own some of the TF class, conversion is not possible.   Per Fido, you are considered a new investor for the TF class - they are probably correct.

[anitya]

After your AIP transaction goes through, you should check History / Purchase History to make sure you were not charged the full fees, instead of the $5. It happened to me more than a handful times - system failure. Most of the times I got it corrected with a phone call but a couple of times I had to escalate it to a supervisor because the first level rep tried to BS me. If you have a dedicated Rep, then getting that corrected should not be a problem but always check History / Purchase History.

[chang]

Jul 27, 2021 8:33:44 GMT anitya said:

I suspect you will not get a push back, especially when you have a dedicated team.  I would rather have the convenience that comes with paying $5. 

Just to be clear -- I agree with you completely. I always pay $5 to add to TF funds. The only times I have used the "cheat" have been for intial purchases to save $50. For example, I bought $102,000 of MPACX and converted it to MIAPX. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't care about $5, but $50 is another story...

[chang]

Jul 27, 2021 8:40:28 GMT anitya said:

After your AIP transaction goes through, you should check History / Purchase History to make sure you were not charged the full fees, instead of the $5. It happened to me more than a handful times - system failure.

Good advice! Honestly, I probably haven't checked that in the past. Now I will.

Edit: I just went and checked the last three AIP purchases. Fortunately $5 each time.

[paulr888]

Darn, Chang, you do know all the ways to cheat.  lol .... Frankly, I don't mind paying the one-time fee for the initial buy of a TF mutual fund but I hate to pay the same fee for each additional buy.  So I set up the AIP with no expiration and then cancel it entirely after the first AIP is executed.  That way it only costs me $5.  And people talk about leaving Fidelity.  Heck, I don't want to have to learn new tricks with another brokerage.  This dog is too old for new tricks.  My fav trick is one I think you already know because I thought you alluded to it once.  An example that comes to mind is DoubleLine.  As you may know, I am big fan of DoubleLine.  For my trust, the Investor Class has too high a minimum and I am stuck with buying Retail Class which not only has a little higher ER but I don't want to own two share classes of same fund.  So I call Fidelity Cust Service and have them transfer 1 Investor Class share (with lower min for an IRA) from my IRA  to my trust.  They don't seem to mind.  They always remind me about the tax involved and I say sure I know that, but don't withhold tax I will handle at tax time.  

P.S.  I always check my trade confirmation statement to make sure because I am a cheap son of a gun.  But now I found someone cheaper than me.  Just saying.  lol  Maybe that is why you have millions and I have only one.  

[chang]

Received this reply from Fidelity. Got to admit I am somewhat surprised by their lack of support:

/quote/
The additional important information on the screen you are looking at is general information. On my system I can see that the fund is not eligible for automatic investments. The fees that are associated with that fund are not eligible to be waived unfortunately. My back office explained to me it is a fee they charge Fidelity.
/unquote/

Hmm, well, that sounds like a whole lot of BS to me. What does "general information" mean? I am tempted to contact the fund company to verify their story.

[javajoe]

Where is the easiest place to see what transaction fees you were charged? I looked under Activity and Orders / History tab and filtered for Fees but didn't see any?

[javajoe]

Aside, I just did a rollover from my previous 401k into an existing Fidelity rollover account, and all I had to do was get the distribution check mailed to me (made out to Fido not my personally) and then deposited the 6-figure check via the Fidelity mobile app. The next day all the funds were available for trading. Couldn't have been easier.

Not too earth-shattering in 2021 but still felt weird to deposit a check that large and for such a specific purpose so easily! (and I've been doing mobile check deposit for 8-10 years).

Their Customer Service is not what it used to be (especially wait times on Live Chat) but I still think they are a well-run brokerage house all things considered.

-JavaJoe

[paulr888]

Chang ...  My final thoughts to help.  In my 3 years with Fidelity, I only asked for fee waiver once when I first became a client because I read from Morningstar forum others doing that.  Since then I have never asked for any waivers or favors along those lines.  I am content with working the system and not trying to get special treatment.  There are many other tricks we've discussed that are generous.  Do you have a history of fee waiver requests?  If so, maybe that is finally counting against you.  I don't think calling the fund is going to be helpful.  Do you have an assigned Financial Consultant at Fidelity at a local brick and mortar like we have in the States?  If so, I would contact them.  I find it hard to believe I am 36 for 36 with all my mutual funds and you found one that is not eligible.  What are the odds of that?  Something doesn't add up.  If they balk, tell them you run a forum and a fellow Fidelity client from California reports his Financial Consultant talked about a Form she could fill out and manually assist with the AIP.  Is that just true in California and not where you are?  Good luck. 

[anitya]

Jul 27, 2021 9:43:55 GMT chang said:

Jul 27, 2021 8:33:44 GMT anitya said:

I suspect you will not get a push back, especially when you have a dedicated team.  I would rather have the convenience that comes with paying $5. 

Just to be clear -- I agree with you completely. I always pay $5 to add to TF funds. The only times I have used the "cheat" have been for intial purchases to save $50. For example, I bought $102,000 of MPACX and converted it to MIAPX. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't care about $5, but $50 is another story...

I was only encouraging you not to worry about push back.  I do not consider it ‘cheating’ unless one is doing it to avoid the 60 days STR fees.  Very rarely ever that would be the case for most forum members.  FYI - Not all fund families allow conversion which is  usually written in prospectus - American (Capital Group) could be one of them.

[chang]

Jul 27, 2021 6:26:09 GMT roi2020 said:

I don't know if this is a reliable way to determine whether a Fidelity platform mutual fund is eligible for $5 automatic investments. 

1) Select fund.

2) Scroll down page.

3) Click ‘Additional Important Information’.

4) Check ‘Automatic Investment’ fee listed in the Transaction Fee section.

Fidelity claims this is generic information (same for all fund pages). Do you know of a specific page where the AIP option does not appear?

[chang]

Jul 27, 2021 14:36:14 GMT javajoe said:

Where is the easiest place to see what transaction fees you were charged? I looked under Activity and Orders / History tab and filtered for Fees but didn't see any?

That's where I looked also. I didn't filter the record, I just checked the last three purchases and noted the $5 fee attached to each.

[roi2020]

Jul 27, 2021 22:50:40 GMT chang said:

Jul 27, 2021 6:26:09 GMT roi2020 said:

I don't know if this is a reliable way to determine whether a Fidelity platform mutual fund is eligible for $5 automatic investments. 

1) Select fund.

2) Scroll down page.

3) Click ‘Additional Important Information’.

4) Check ‘Automatic Investment’ fee listed in the Transaction Fee section.

Fidelity claims this is generic information (same for all fund pages). Do you know of a specific page where the AIP option does not appear?

Unfortunately I do not. I checked approximately 10 transaction fee funds and they all had a $5 Automatic Investment fee listed.
If you know of a specific fund where this fee is not applicable, it would be interesting to make a comparison.

[chang]

Jul 28, 2021 1:44:33 GMT roi2020 said:

Unfortunately I do not. I checked approximately 10 transaction fee funds and they all had the $5 Automatic Investment fee listed.
If you know of a specific fund where the $5 fee is not applicable, it would be interesting to make a comparison.

It is definitely not applicable to RCTIX. I have also experienced other cases in the past where a fund did not show up as AIP-eligible, but I can't recall which ones. If I could find a case where the AIP fee does not show up on the Fido web page, then I will have caught the rep red-handed in BS.

[roi2020]

The following info is listed for RCTIX (good fund by the way): Automatic Investment: $5 per transaction, after the initial investment.
It appears that this info is not always reliable/accurate.

[chang]

Jul 28, 2021 1:56:55 GMT roi2020 said:

The following info is listed for RCTIX (good fund by the way): Automatic Investment: $5 per transaction, after the initial investment.
It appears that this info is not always reliable/accurate.

Yes, as I mentioned above. Fidelity claims that the "Additional Information" section is generic and does not apply to specific funds. I'd like to get my hands on a page where the information is different. 

[chang]

Just to close the loop: Canyon Partners confirmed that RCTIX is not eligible for AIP. Gosh knows why they would make such a decision. Also, Fido said "nothing doing" regarding TF waivers. They can be pretty snotty about freebies; perhaps because they recently gave me $2500 for a TOA, and they figure that I should pay for my own TF's. However, someone (here) reminded me that VG gives a certain number of TF waivers per year (I totally forgot!), so if and when I want to add, I will just do it there.

[paulr888]

Aug 10, 2021 3:12:55 GMT chang said:

Just to close the loop: Canyon Partners confirmed that RCTIX is not eligible for AIP. Gosh knows why they would make such a decision. Also, Fido said "nothing doing" regarding TF waivers. They can be pretty snotty about freebies; perhaps because they recently gave me $2500 for a TOA, and they figure that I should pay for my own TF's. However, someone (here) reminded me that VG gives a certain number of TF waivers per year (I totally forgot!), so if and when I want to add, I will just do it there.

RCTIX is interesting fund.  I had seen it on FD's table of funds but it never caught my attention.  Parent Co., Canyon Partners, LLC has over $20B AUM.  Yet another firm in the LA area.  It must be a competitive environment down there.  As you already made contact with them, I might be inclined to follow up and talk to them about other investment opportunities they may have for you.  I am a big fan of selecting a firm and then finding out what they advise their advisors or clients on other investments available.  Their website says they target wide universe of mispriced securities and have flexible mandate.  If I were you, I would not necessarily be one and done with RCTIX.  Good luck.  Nice find.  

[chang]

Aug 10, 2021 4:19:28 GMT paulr888 said:

RCTIX is interesting fund.  I had seen it on FD's table of funds but it never caught my attention.  Parent Co., Canyon Partners, LLC has over $20B AUM.  Yet another firm in the LA area.  It must be a competitive environment down there.  As you already made contact with them, I might be inclined to follow up and talk to them about other investment opportunities they may have for you.  I am a big fan of selecting a firm and then finding out what they advise their advisors or clients on other investments available.  Their website says they target wide universe of mispriced securities and have flexible mandate.  If I were you, I would not necessarily be one and done with RCTIX.  Good luck.  Nice find.  

Thanks. I don't want to digress into RCTIX here - but would be happy to discuss in a new thread. I read a fair amount about CP before deciding to invest here. IMO this is not the typical MS fund. Their expertise is focused and somewhat niche, but impressive, and they have achieved an unmistakably positive result, and they have a huge amount of their own money committed to it. However, regarding your suggestion: I only invest in highly liquid assets, so I would not consider tying up money in one of their less liquid vehicles.