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Post by Norbert on May 1, 2024 5:22:33 GMT
Inspired by the pro-Hamas activists occupying universities like Harvard and Columbia, which is your favorite Islamic terrorist organization?
Hamas has been in the news lately thanks to its daring attack on an Israeli music festival and private homes, but there are several other groups whose tireless efforts should not be forgotten.
We all know Al-Qaïda, whose creative work permanently changed the Manhattan skyline. Or, there's the Taliban, which is now running Afghanistan and teaching women their correct place in society. Boko Haram is active in education; it has bravely kidnapped entire classrooms in Nigeria for years. Hizbollah is Iran's favorite proxy army and has successfully led Lebanon out of the modern era to achieve failed nation status. Al-Shabaab was the inspiration for the academy award winning 2001 film "Black Hawk Down" directed by Ridley Scott.
With so many successful terrorist groups, each with its own colorful leaders and operational style, it's obviously a tough choice.
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Post by steadyeddy on May 1, 2024 11:10:56 GMT
Very intriguing poll, I would like to see what the intellectuals on this forum come up with as their premier choice -
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Post by racqueteer on May 1, 2024 12:05:56 GMT
Hmmm... While the ubiquity of Norbert's somewhat tongue-in-cheek listing of current Muslim terrorist groups is distressing, I cannot help wondering where the past acts of devout 'Christians' might fall in said poll. Perhaps consideration of the forcible removal of American Indian children from their families to be 'raised' institutionally (and brutalized in same) might give one pause? The Spanish actions in South America? Unfortunately, ignorant and exploitive people have no difficulty finding justification for their personal actions, and 'religion' offers a variety of those.
Overlapping with Richard's thread, one of the more interesting books I've read was POSTWATCH by Orson Scott Card. A future group elects to change history to circumvent the discovery of the New World until such time as they can, alternatively, be the ones who do the discovering of the Old World instead. A good read!
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Post by anovice on May 1, 2024 12:30:35 GMT
I'm going with the Houthis because I enjoy Yemeni cuisine.
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Post by uncleharley on May 1, 2024 13:19:35 GMT
I'll pass on this one.
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Post by Norbert on May 1, 2024 14:31:50 GMT
Hmmm... While the ubiquity of Norbert's somewhat tongue-in-cheek listing of current Muslim terrorist groups is distressing, I cannot help wondering where the past acts of devout 'Christians' might fall in said poll. Perhaps consideration of the forcible removal of American Indian children from their families to be 'raised' institutionally (and brutalized in same) might give one pause? The Spanish actions in South America? Unfortunately, ignorant and exploitive people have no difficulty finding justification for their personal actions, and 'religion' offers a variety of those. Overlapping with Richard's thread, one of the more interesting books I've read was POSTWATCH by Orson Scott Card. A future group elects to change history to circumvent the discovery of the New World until such time as they can, alternatively, be the ones who do the discovering of the Old World instead. A good read! This is 2024, not the Middle Ages.
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Post by Chahta on May 1, 2024 15:52:19 GMT
The only thing lacking in this poll is an “all of the above” choice. It’s hard to pick just one.
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Post by Chahta on May 1, 2024 15:54:25 GMT
Hmmm... While the ubiquity of Norbert's somewhat tongue-in-cheek listing of current Muslim terrorist groups is distressing, I cannot help wondering where the past acts of devout 'Christians' might fall in said poll. Perhaps consideration of the forcible removal of American Indian children from their families to be 'raised' institutionally (and brutalized in same) might give one pause? The Spanish actions in South America? Unfortunately, ignorant and exploitive people have no difficulty finding justification for their personal actions, and 'religion' offers a variety of those. Overlapping with Richard's thread, one of the more interesting books I've read was POSTWATCH by Orson Scott Card. A future group elects to change history to circumvent the discovery of the New World until such time as they can, alternatively, be the ones who do the discovering of the Old World instead. A good read! I was thinking the US government in general with all of the weaponizations of alphabet agencies. But then again every government or group of people in charge seem to thrive on terrorizing their citizens at some point. On a serious note I am an enrolled citizen of the Choctaw Nation. The children forced to attend Christian schools was horrific. One need only watch the movie 1923. The history of brutality on Indians is well documented, as is the brutality of one tribe upon another. Similar to Muslim brutality upon other Muslims and Muslim brutality on Jews. Then again black Africans rounding up slaves for that trade is old news. I guess I will stop with examples because that really muddies the water. See the attachment by my favorite Choctaw artist Bobby Von Martin. The girl with the red handprint over her mouth says it all. Attachments:
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Post by win1177 on May 1, 2024 16:04:08 GMT
I agree with “all the above”!
Win
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Post by Mustang on May 1, 2024 16:46:32 GMT
Past atrocities are not an excuse for modern ones.
Ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, Aztecs, Mayan and Native Americans before Europeans arrived all participated in slavery. Slaves built the pyramids, temples and roads. I doubt there is a single modern day culture that doesn't have some roots in slavery or mistreatment of other humans. This is not the middle ages and many cultures have progressed past the point where they think such acts are acceptable.
But not all. There is still an active slave trade in Africa and I find the cruelty of what Hamas did in Israel truly sickening, I heard a new report this morning about American college students at George Washington University supporting the final solution for Jews. Do they even know what that means?
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Post by Capital on May 1, 2024 17:40:44 GMT
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Post by bizman on May 1, 2024 18:02:11 GMT
All are awful.
Recently, though, I've been focused on the negative effects caused by the Western Fifth Column that I like to call the "expert class" that has come up with innovations such as DEI and others that have one main goal: to bring down America and Western Civilization.
The 68-ers now run our cultural institutions and they are making a real mess of things.
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Post by gman57 on May 1, 2024 18:08:13 GMT
The Holocaust -- is that a modern one or a past one, I know it's not middle ages? 70-80 years ago? Humans have always sucked in their treatment of each other. Much of it based on religious beliefs even though the main theme of most religions is love your neighbor. Crazy humans... will we ever get it right?
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Post by Norbert on May 2, 2024 6:44:46 GMT
All are awful. Recently, though, I've been focused on the negative effects caused by the Western Fifth Column that I like to call the "expert class" that has come up with innovations such as DEI and others that have one main goal: to bring down America and Western Civilization. The 68-ers now run our cultural institutions and they are making a real mess of things. The Palestinians are a favorite cause célébré of the Woke generation. What's amazing is that this crowd will even support a murderous terrorist organization like Hamas, since it wants to destroy Israel. Hence this tongue-in-cheek poll. Assad killed 400,000 in Syria; the Chinese are persecuting the Uigher Muslims; and 10,000s are dying in Sudan and Congo. But, the Woke mob doesn't blink. That's because Israel isn't involved. Antisemitism is in favor again. Palestinian supporters celebrated the October 7 attack on an Israeli music festival and kibbutzim immediately after the event, long before the IDF entered Gaza; for example, in Sydney: www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/pro-palestinian-rally-in-sydney-calls-for-australia-to-drop-support-for-israel
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Post by bizman on May 2, 2024 12:31:17 GMT
All are awful. Recently, though, I've been focused on the negative effects caused by the Western Fifth Column that I like to call the "expert class" that has come up with innovations such as DEI and others that have one main goal: to bring down America and Western Civilization. The 68-ers now run our cultural institutions and they are making a real mess of things. The Palestinians are a favorite cause célébré of the Woke generation. What's amazing is that this crowd will even support a murderous terrorist organization like Hamas, since it wants to destroy Israel. Hence this tongue-in-cheek poll. Assad killed 400,000 in Syria; the Chinese are persecuting the Uigher Muslims; and 10,000s are dying in Sudan and Congo. But, the Woke mob doesn't blink. That's because Israel isn't involved. Antisemitism is in favor again. Palestinian supporters celebrated the October 7 attack on an Israeli music festival and kibbutzim immediately after the event, long before the IDF entered Gaza; for example, in Sydney: www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/pro-palestinian-rally-in-sydney-calls-for-australia-to-drop-support-for-israelNo question that Jews and Israel are on the front lines of the battle for Western Civilization. It is so strange that so many high IQ people have so much trouble identifying good and evil. I guess a diet of Marx, Foucault, and Fanon will do that to people. “A writer who says that there are no truths, or that all truth is ‘merely relative,’ is asking you not to believe him. So don’t. Deconstruction deconstructs itself, and disappears up its own behind, leaving only a disembodied smile and a faint smell of sulphur.” -- Roger Scruton
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Post by chang on May 2, 2024 15:09:10 GMT
I get Hamas and Iran; nothing new there (except Israel’s horrendous security failure). I even get the far-left US politicians.
What I don’t get are the total šhïț-for-brains kids at colleges across America. What kind of parents do these kids have? What kind of high schools and high school teachers did they have?
And US taxpayers are supposed to pay off their student loans?
For Russian speakers: Lenin had a term for these people, полезные дураки.
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Post by anovice on May 2, 2024 15:10:43 GMT
bizman: "It is so strange that so many high IQ people have so much trouble identifying good and evil"
With domestic politics as well.
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Post by Mustang on May 2, 2024 15:20:12 GMT
Since this is tongue-in-cheek I'd suggest the most favored terrorist group is the over educated college elite. Having never experienced adult responsibility and obtained a degree (or degrees) in under-water-basket-weaving, they believe by their very nature they have the right, a responsibility, to tell others how to live. Was it Lennin who called them useful idiots? The riots were at so many campuses that its hard to remember but I believe it was Columbia where approximately half those arrested didn't even attend the university. Professional protestors moving from cause to cause to create anarchy. Some of the students interviewed didn't know what they were protesting and didn't know the meaning of the slogans they were shouting.
I liked what the California Highway Patrol did at UCLA. They uncovered the faces of those arrested so the public could see who they were. With AI background checks I hope all potential employers see this and turn them down.
Martin Niemöller wrote:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.
"Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
"Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
"Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
I cannot believe this is happening in the United States. Those that tolerate this kind of behavior should be aware. The time may come when they come for them. The one glimmer of light was at UNC where a group of students protected the American flag and sang our national anthem.
I'm glad I stopped teaching in 2018. I left having really enjoyed it. Nowadays, I doubt I could tolerate this crap and I probably would be fired anyway.
P.S. I was retired Air Force before I started teaching at a university.
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Post by racqueteer on May 2, 2024 16:16:29 GMT
Hmmm... While the ubiquity of Norbert's somewhat tongue-in-cheek listing of current Muslim terrorist groups is distressing, I cannot help wondering where the past acts of devout 'Christians' might fall in said poll. Perhaps consideration of the forcible removal of American Indian children from their families to be 'raised' institutionally (and brutalized in same) might give one pause? The Spanish actions in South America? Unfortunately, ignorant and exploitive people have no difficulty finding justification for their personal actions, and 'religion' offers a variety of those. Overlapping with Richard's thread, one of the more interesting books I've read was POSTWATCH by Orson Scott Card. A future group elects to change history to circumvent the discovery of the New World until such time as they can, alternatively, be the ones who do the discovering of the Old World instead. A good read! I was thinking the US government in general with all of the weaponizations of alphabet agencies. But then again every government or group of people in charge seem to thrive on terrorizing their citizens at some point. On a serious note I am an enrolled citizen of the Choctaw Nation. The children forced to attend Christian schools was horrific. One need only watch the movie 1923. The history of brutality on Indians is well documented, as is the brutality of one tribe upon another. Similar to Muslim brutality upon other Muslims and Muslim brutality on Jews. Then again black Africans rounding up slaves for that trade is old news. I guess I will stop with examples because that really muddies the water. See the attachment by my favorite Choctaw artist Bobby Von Martin. The girl with the red handprint over her mouth says it all. Then there are the estimated 5,000 "honor killings" perpetrated every year around the globe. Not religious killings per se, but yet another example of the seemingly unlimited human capacity for committing barbarous acts based on flimsy justifications. I think it's an especially nice touch that, at least in Pakistan, the family members who were undoubtedly responsible for arranging said murders are also allowed to simply forgive the perpetrators of the action and everyone simply walks away. No harm, no foul, it would appear. Allowing ourselves to dwell on this nonsense is enough to make a thinking person despair of the future of the human race.
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Post by catdog on May 2, 2024 17:00:30 GMT
I chose Hamas not because they were my favorite, but because I hoped it entitled me to ask a question of the group. Why does a group of 2 million people (Gazans) allow themselves to be manipulated by Hamas? I know this sounds short sighted and naive. but any attempts would be welcome.
catdog
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Post by howaya on May 2, 2024 18:19:07 GMT
Okay catdog , I'll take a stab at answering your question. Most people would rather not be at war whether they be Palestinian or Isreali, Ukranian or Russian, or any innocent bystander of the 30+ current armed conflicts in Africa, etc, etc. Individually or collectively, most simply do not have the means to stop the mayhem caused by those in power or to achieve enough peace and stability necessary for basic needs. How could one topple Hamas when even in relatively more peaceful times than now when the challenges of obtaining food, water, shelter, and healthcare are already monumental. Thus, it isn't a matter of allowing Hamas to manipulate. Rather, it is Hamas having dominant power to make terrible choices with horrific consequences as no one else can rise up and say, "No, we (a numerical majority) will not allow you to do that." Interestingly, even with the checks and balances of a democratic nation, we managed to elect a leader who is prone to making terrible choices for himself and billions of others. And we weren't faced with the immense challenges described in the first paragraph, above.
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Post by Chahta on May 2, 2024 18:55:42 GMT
I was thinking the US government in general with all of the weaponizations of alphabet agencies. But then again every government or group of people in charge seem to thrive on terrorizing their citizens at some point. On a serious note I am an enrolled citizen of the Choctaw Nation. The children forced to attend Christian schools was horrific. One need only watch the movie 1923. The history of brutality on Indians is well documented, as is the brutality of one tribe upon another. Similar to Muslim brutality upon other Muslims and Muslim brutality on Jews. Then again black Africans rounding up slaves for that trade is old news. I guess I will stop with examples because that really muddies the water. See the attachment by my favorite Choctaw artist Bobby Von Martin. The girl with the red handprint over her mouth says it all. Then there are the estimated 5,000 "honor killings" perpetrated every year around the globe. Not religious killings per se, but yet another example of the seemingly unlimited human capacity for committing barbarous acts based on flimsy justifications. I think it's an especially nice touch that, at least in Pakistan, the family members who were undoubtedly responsible for arranging said murders are also allowed to simply forgive the perpetrators of the action and everyone simply walks away. No harm, no foul, it would appear. Allowing ourselves to dwell on this nonsense is enough to make a thinking person despair of the future of the human race. This will be hard to swallow for westerners and those with different value systems. But it is wrong to impose one's beliefs on those of a different culture. That is a very Christian like to do that. I make no judgement on those other cultures unless it affects me, personally; i.e., muslims can cut hands off of thieves of their own culture. But do not cut any of my culture's hands off.
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Post by richardsok on May 2, 2024 21:20:29 GMT
I get Hamas and Iran; nothing new there (except Israel’s horrendous security failure). I even get the far-left US politicians. What I don’t get are the total šhïț-for-brains kids at colleges across America. What kind of parents do these kids have? What kind of high schools and high school teachers did they have? And US taxpayers are supposed to pay off their student loans? For Russian speakers: Lenin had a term for these people, полезные дураки. chang-- I have two theories on the loco-fringe of today's uber-left college kids. First -- I have clear memories of 1969-1972, thereabouts. Back then, to be VERY loud and flamboyant with your anti-Johnson & Nixon buttons, pro Vietcong patches on grungy denim, and pacifist posturing was THE royal road to maximizing recreational sex opportunities. You needed the necessary props. Big hair, wild beard and a bullhorn helped immensely. I suspect today's pro-Palestine generation rhymes . Secondly -- today's kids really DO have a valid beef; they sense it and resent it, but don't see it clearly. Economically most will never attain foothold in the upper middle class. I think it was Victor Davis Hanson who wrote about their plight in THE DYING CITIZEN as they will spend their lives renting from the managerial classes ( including, incidentally, Jewish landlords! ) but owning little. But it's hard for the young to get all riled up about inflation. They have short life experiences, after all, and no one wants to be allied with housewives banging pots in the street. Far better to be a fierce justice warrior. With a pose like that, even the losers can get lucky.
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Post by graust on May 2, 2024 22:03:49 GMT
The thing that kills me (ok, not literally, but almost), is that the things most of these protestors also stand for, such as LGBTQ+ rights, pronoun usage, secular beliefs, and just in general “liberal” (in the classical sense) ideas would cause them to be imprisoned and even KILLED by Hamas.
But do you know what country is accepting of their “liberal” ideas? Israel.
‘Nuff said.
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Post by howaya on May 2, 2024 23:30:41 GMT
News coverage during this evening's PBS News Hour offers a slightly different perspective than "**it-for-brains kids", "the road to maximizing recreational sexual opportunities", etc etc. Notably,
-- Most campus protesting across the country remains peaceful. But media has a harder time selling the epic boredom of peaceful protests so that isn't what they want to show us. Actual positive outcomes at Dartmouth College are now scheduled.
-- Apparently, many peaceful protesters accept being detained when authorities are called in and cooperate fully.
-- Counter-protests and non-student agitators are most often the source of escalation; some campus news reporters say police aren't blameless, either.
-- An interview with the President of Wesleyan (?) was quite good. He felt these protests had some educational value (up to a point), he saw the value of discourse, and he held a view far more balanced than recent entries here.
The news segment I saw will likely be posted on the PBS News Hour web site by tomorrow. Maybe some of you would do well to watch it.
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bruno
Lieutenant
Posts: 57
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Post by bruno on May 2, 2024 23:47:57 GMT
I find it HARD to believe anyone would even post this poll.
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Post by anitya on May 3, 2024 1:08:55 GMT
I am not following this thread but I see (because I read in the Recent Posts mode) many of my favorite posters (and chang ) are participating in it. Please remember to make sure to self moderate because I do not want any of you to leave the forum unhappy.
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Post by Norbert on May 3, 2024 4:59:03 GMT
I chose Hamas not because they were my favorite, but because I hoped it entitled me to ask a question of the group. Why does a group of 2 million people (Gazans) allow themselves to be manipulated by Hamas? I know this sounds short sighted and naive. but any attempts would be welcome. catdog Hamas was elected in the 2006 Palestinian Legislative elections on a platform of armed resistance to Israel. Hamas has been true to its word. Its focus has indeed been on armed resistance, not the development of the Gazan economy or civilian infrastructure. Hamas appears to have been quite popular among the Gazan population (at least until the Israeli response to the October 7 atrocities). My understanding is that Hamas was also preferred over Fatah (Abbas) because of perceived corruption in the latter organization. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_government_in_the_Gaza_StripThe Hamas charter (English translation) is here: irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818.htmHope that helps.
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Post by Norbert on May 3, 2024 5:31:31 GMT
I find it HARD to believe anyone would even post this poll. Really? What I find hard to believe is the naivety of the pro-Palestinian protesters: * Hamas is a fascist organization with zero tolerance for the liberal values of the protesters. * Over two million Arab Muslims are Israeli citizens, enjoying greater prosperity than citizens of any neighboring Arab country. If you ask an Israeli Arab if he or she would like to become a citizen of a new Palestinian state, they'll laugh at you. * Gaza could have been another Singapore or Dubai with its prime Mediterranean location. Israel closed all settlements and withdrew; the Europeans were ready to finance development. However, the residents opted for Hamas: terrorism and confrontation with Israel. * Hamas tortured and killed over 1100 people on October 7, including babies, music festival participants, and villagers. Israel responded by attacking Hamas, warning civilians to evacuate specific locations. Can you imagine the Russian, Syrian, or Chinese response to a comparable terrorist attack? The poll is a satirical reaction to the brainless pro-Palestinian demonstrators and their romanticized view of Islamic terrorism and jihad.
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Post by chang on May 3, 2024 5:35:10 GMT
richardsok I don’t buy the sex or the “beef” excuses. Woodstock beards might have been the key to easy sex and drugs in the 60s, but not now. As to “Secondly -- today's kids really DO have a valid beef; they sense it and resent it, but don't see it clearly. Economically most will never attain foothold in the upper middle class.” — I’m not sure I buy that either. Kids in my generation scooped ice cream and washed dishes in high school as their first jobs. We set up lemonade stands in the summer, shoveled snow in the winter. Nowadays there are lots of under-30 billionaires as role models; dozens of Fortune 500 CEOs practically still in diapers. We never had that as kids. Sure, houses are expensive, but the ‘upper middle class’ is probably younger than it’s ever been before. I stand by my S.F.B. characterization. Every one of these SFB kids is a disgrace and should spend a semester in Teheran. It’s their parents that scare me more than anything.
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