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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2023 14:44:22 GMT
I was greated by a new 125 page electronic services agreement when I logged into my bank account this AM. Don't accept right there and then, no access. Of course, this is 125 pages of legalese no mortal man could comprehend and my gut feeling is it's probably gives the bank new loopholes to not stand behind their own customers if they become victims of fraud even 'tho Chase systems were hacked and 60 million of their own customers were compromised. Enjoy that new Park Avenue office tower, Jamie. How fun is it to build your own monument to yourself! I bet the peons look tiny from you office.
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Post by yogibearbull on Sept 25, 2023 14:55:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2023 17:08:43 GMT
Thanks YBB. I have business near my branch tomorrow. I think I'll drop in and demand a paper copy and see what happens. I may try to use Fidelity CMA exclusively. The benevolent billionaire owners still seem to value their customers in ways that have disappeared at other financial services companies.
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Post by roi2020 on Sept 27, 2023 6:24:15 GMT
I abhor these lengthy and convoluted agreements that numerous businesses impose on their retail customers. I don't recall seeing one that is 125 pages - that's ridiculous!
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Post by Chahta on Sept 27, 2023 7:28:07 GMT
roi2020, well you either agree and sign or you are rejected. It's a no-brainer......they rule you. @django, they make too much money and need to spend it on something.
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Post by archer on Sept 27, 2023 14:57:16 GMT
This has been a peev of mine for many years. Constantly we are faced with "terms of agreement" that stand in the way of simple purchases that should only take 60 seconds to complete. Even if it is only one page of gobbledygook, who wants to read it, and how often is there even anything relevant in the terms? If businesses are really trying to pull something horrendous by imbedding it in layers of irrelevant print, there are limits as to how much would pass in a court of law.
Where the law needs to step in is putting limits the length and complexity of these terms of agreement.
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Post by bb2 on Sept 27, 2023 17:02:11 GMT
My two banks, Schwab and Chase, have never done me wrong. They've both quickly made me whole from fraud. If someday they burn me, I'll switch. Till then I ignore the terms - waste of time. That said, there should be some consumer protection around legalese. Write your reps if you care.
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Post by fritzo489 on Sept 27, 2023 17:32:44 GMT
Yesterday read they, (JPM) had settlement of some 50m + for Epstein connection !
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Post by howaya on Sept 27, 2023 18:38:53 GMT
My two banks, Schwab and Chase, have never done me wrong. They've both quickly made me whole from fraud. If someday they burn me, I'll switch. Till then I ignore the terms - waste of time. That said, there should be some consumer protection around legalese. Write your reps if you care. If ever you found yourself in such a situation the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau might be a useful resource, unless the likes of Mick Mulvaney are running it at the time.
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Post by anitya on Sept 27, 2023 18:51:00 GMT
My two banks, Schwab and Chase, have never done me wrong. They've both quickly made me whole from fraud. If someday they burn me, I'll switch. Till then I ignore the terms - waste of time. That said, there should be some consumer protection around legalese. Write your reps if you care. Agree. People should be writing to their Congressmen and CFPB more if they care. I have written to my Congresswoman and saw positive results. Zero to no interest on bank balances is not much different from how our Congresspeople treat us. Both only care about consequences from you to them. I have accounts at both banks but I do not presume they will make me whole if something goes wrong. That is true for all the large organizations I do business with.
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Post by bb2 on Sept 27, 2023 19:33:14 GMT
anitya - They do have written policies stating they will make you whole. My credit card was read by an ATM slot insert in Rome and over a year later, a $500 charge showed up. A couple friends I was traveling with had the exact same experience. Chase refunded it immediately. Friends I was traveling with had the exact same experience. I had a checking acct at Schwab bank and over 6 months a number, like 50, of ACH withdrawls were made totaling about 10K. My wife's job is to keep that account flush to cover stuff and I recall her saying, "I keep putting money in but it seems to go pretty fast." I wasn't listening, as usual. Schwab put the money back right away. Now we have email activity alerts set on everything.
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Post by anitya on Sept 27, 2023 19:50:41 GMT
bb2 , I am glad it worked out. May be the fraud departments provide better customer service than the regular customer facing parts of the these organizations. All the big organizations' regular customer service has deteriorated in the past few years. When they make a mistake, their usual answer seems to be "that is how our systems are set up or that is our company policy" or something to that effect. Recently, I dealt with Schwab on an issue where the outcome was different from what two of their representatives told me over the phone. When I called back, the third rep threw the book at me. I asked him to connect me to a supervisor and he claimed to be a supervisor. I told him to listen to the calls with the previous two reps and call me back. He did not have the courage to call me back and had somebody else call me back. That is terrible customer service for a smallish item. I can only imagine how terrible their behavior would be if the issue is material. I am not trying to single out Schwab - just an example of how large organizations are behaving these days and thus better not to presume they behave well and better to protect oneself. Large organizations' first MO seems to be deflect or deny. On occasion, I also said to them I am recording the call just to make them behave properly.
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kent
Ensign
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Post by kent on Sept 28, 2023 2:24:25 GMT
bb2 , I am glad it worked out. May be the fraud departments provide better customer service than the regular customer facing parts of the these organizations. All the big organizations' regular customer service has deteriorated in the past few years. When they make a mistake, their usual answer seems to be "that is how our systems are set up or that is our company policy" or something to that effect. Recently, I dealt with Schwab on an issue where the outcome was different from what two of their representatives told me over the phone. When I called back, the third rep threw the book at me. I asked him to connect me to a supervisor and he claimed to be a supervisor. I told him to listen to the calls with the previous two reps and call me back. He did not have the courage to call me back and had somebody else call me back. That is terrible customer service for a smallish item. I can only imagine how terrible their behavior would be if the issue is material. I am not trying to single out Schwab - just an example of how large organizations are behaving these days and thus better not to presume they behave well and better to protect oneself. Large organizations' first MO seems to be deflect or deny. On occasion, I also said to them I am recording the call just to make them behave properly. I record most of important calls, there is a window feature where you can record. Very easy to set up. Search for voice recorder.
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kent
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Post by kent on Sept 28, 2023 2:27:33 GMT
anitya - They do have written policies stating they will make you whole. My credit card was read by an ATM slot insert in Rome and over a year later, a $500 charge showed up. A couple friends I was traveling with had the exact same experience. Chase refunded it immediately. Friends I was traveling with had the exact same experience. I had a checking acct at Schwab bank and over 6 months a number, like 50, of ACH withdrawls were made totaling about 10K. My wife's job is to keep that account flush to cover stuff and I recall her saying, "I keep putting money in but it seems to go pretty fast." I wasn't listening, as usual. Schwab put the money back right away. Now we have email activity alerts set on everything. It is a good idea to turn transactions activity on even on the bank account and charge cards. I have it set at 1 dollar anything above this limit I get a phone message.
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Post by anitya on Sept 28, 2023 6:22:25 GMT
kent , Thanks. I am presuming you use speaker phone and record the call on your computer using windows. If not, clue us in on the mechanics. I think in most States a recording is not admissible as evidence, unless the other party is notified before recording. Many of the times when I tell the Reps I will record the call, they do not want to be part of the call.
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Post by anitya on Sept 28, 2023 6:27:18 GMT
I would turn on alerts even for deposits / credits so you are reminded when a merchandise return / refund is credited to your account.
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Post by yogibearbull on Sept 28, 2023 11:27:18 GMT
I have alerts on all bank a/c & credit cards using appropriate thresholds. On some cards, I have authorized users and I have told them to inform me ahead of any big or unusual charges so that I know that alerts are for genuine charges; sometimes the card security may trigger too. Most cards also allow alerts for international charges, non-swipe charges (it is also useful to make sure ASAP that an online transaction I am making has gone through; of course, other confirmations may come later).
It is easy to trip card securities these days. Example1 - I subscribed to some service on my phone and that went through. But when I tried the same for my wife's phone, the card security triggered - it looked like a duplicated/repeated charge to it. It said to respond to the alert, and if OK, then try the transaction AGAIN. That worked. Example2 - a friend wanted to make a jewelry purchase at a warehouse club (we are member & my wife went with them). We KNEW that card security would be triggered & I was ready for it & the transaction went through while they were at the checkout.
I haven't used the phone recorders for calls. It is legal to do so when the other party is informed ahead. I am also aware of some people surreptitiously recording regular conversations with phone in the pocket/purse with recorder ON - there was a lady that even did this at the White House and then wrote a book. If not illegal, it is bad etiquette. But on important calls, I do start with asking the Rep's name so that I can keep notes - this alone wakes some up; it also throws them off any script that they might start with.
BTW, only Chase a/c that I have are its cashback (Freedom) cards. I am bombarded by Chase with deals for new a/c opening and consultations with wealth advisors (just based on my cards? Jamie Dimon seems to be panicking).
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kent
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Post by kent on Sept 29, 2023 4:22:05 GMT
kent , Thanks. I am presuming you use speaker phone and record the call on your computer using windows. If not, clue us in on the mechanics. I think in most States a recording is not admissible as evidence, unless the other party is notified before recording. Many of the times when I tell the Reps I will record the call, they do not want to be part of the call. Yes, I have the speaker on phone and use windows to record. I am in Wisconsin, to my knowledge it is legal to record the call. 'it is not unlawful in Wisconsin to record telephone conversations to which one is a party, even in the absence of disclosure to and consent of other parties to the conversations. [See Wis. Stat. § 968.31(2)(c), 18 U.S.C. § 2511(2)(d)]."
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Post by retiredat48 on Sept 29, 2023 4:45:39 GMT
kent , Thanks. I am presuming you use speaker phone and record the call on your computer using windows. If not, clue us in on the mechanics. I think in most States a recording is not admissible as evidence, unless the other party is notified before recording. Many of the times when I tell the Reps I will record the call, they do not want to be part of the call. Yes, I have the speaker on phone and use windows to record. I am in Wisconsin, to my knowledge it is legal to record the call. 'it is not unlawful in Wisconsin to record telephone conversations to which one is a party, even in the absence of disclosure to and consent of other parties to the conversations. [See Wis. Stat. § 968.31(2)(c), 18 U.S.C. § 2511(2)(d)]." I think most States are this way... R48
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Post by anitya on Sept 29, 2023 7:15:46 GMT
Not directed at anybody but just an observation -
What I said was "I think in most States a recording is not admissible as evidence, unless the other party is notified [and consented] before recording."
This was not picked up by anybody but it has transmuted into whether it is legal to record or not. You can record all you want.
If we can not stay focused on a point in our little group conversation, I can now understand why there is so much misunderstanding in this world.
This is how most group conversations seem to go -
First person: I have got a stock that could really excel. Second person: Excel? Third person: Sell? Fourth person: Sell, Sell.
First person: This is chaotic. I can not take it anymore; Good Bye. Second person: Good Bye? Third person: Bye? Fourth person: Buy, Buy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2023 16:03:31 GMT
I made an appointment with my banker at Chase. She had no information on any new service agreements and after I showed her the PDF, told me the bank was not able to print me out a copy. She gave me another customer service number and I spent another hour on the phone only to be told Chase will not mail me a paper copy of the agreement either.
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Post by anitya on Oct 3, 2023 20:53:27 GMT
I made an appointment with my banker at Chase. She had no information on any new service agreements and after I showed her the PDF, told me the bank was not able to print me out a copy. She gave me another customer service number and I spent another hour on the phone only to be told Chase will not mail me a paper copy of the agreement either. I would write to CFPB.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 19:56:56 GMT
Well, it took over 3 months to get all my banking needs transferred into a Fidelity CMA. Today I said Buh Bye to Chase.
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