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Post by oldskeet on Jul 28, 2021 21:17:32 GMT
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Post by uncleharley on Jul 28, 2021 21:27:22 GMT
I thought Crypto currencies were for trading. It seems that an OEF would not be the vehicle to use for them. We'll see how it works.
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Post by chang on Jul 29, 2021 4:26:59 GMT
I thought Crypto currencies were for trading. It seems that an OEF would not be the vehicle to use for them. We'll see how it works. Couldn't agree more. But MERKX is a very old fund that's always done that. Maybe that's why it's a 1★ piece of dreck.
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Post by oldskeet on Jul 29, 2021 13:02:22 GMT
I tried to add BTCFX to my watch list in M* Portfolio Manager. At this time it would not accept the ticker symbol. Hopefully, in the next few days I will be able to add it to my watch list. OS
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 29, 2021 13:21:13 GMT
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Post by paulr888 on Jul 29, 2021 14:12:09 GMT
Hi YBB, can you shed some light on the IPO process? There seems to be some secrecy. For example, somewhere I read that DoubleLine had fiked for or would be opening a new CEF. Now I can't find squat about it. In DoubleLine webcast the other day on their current 3 CEFs, I submitted a question on the new fund and they said they cannot comment on it at this time. Why am I, a small retail investor, the last to find out? Is it because the big boys control everything and an investor like me gets to rubble through the aftermath. Very strange process to me.
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 29, 2021 14:27:37 GMT
My understanding is that the SEC approval is required for mutual funds/OEFs, ETFs, CEFs, trusts before they are listed. SEC Edgar would just show filings and here is the screen for those. Search on "Bitcoin" shows several filings and I haven't checked those out. BTW, I found info on BTCFX only via search for firm name "ProFund". www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/companysearch.html
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Post by paulr888 on Jul 29, 2021 15:19:11 GMT
Thanks YBB. I found the fund will be DoubleLine Shiller CAPE Enhanced Income Fund. Paperwork filed with SEC in June 2021. I think it will be a CEF. I saved the website for future use.
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Post by anitya on Jul 29, 2021 17:36:19 GMT
Thanks YBB. I found the fund will be DoubleLine Shiller CAPE Enhanced Income Fund. Paperwork filed with SEC in June 2021. I think it will be a CEF. I saved the website for future use. Thanks. Could you please share the Edgar link to the dbl fund filing? Thanks. A
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 29, 2021 17:37:49 GMT
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Post by anitya on Jul 29, 2021 19:37:11 GMT
Thanks, Yogi. From a quick review, it seems they want to offer DSEEX in a CEF that would also write naked (i.e., uncovered) call options on S&P 500. I would say this is a sign of current popularity of call options and call premiums being more expensive than in prior years. (I am also thinking about your last weekend Options write up.) We have to see if the extra ER and the extra complexity will be worth the extra presumed income from call premiums or the straight DSEEX strategy in a CEF would have been a better product. I would have gladly bought into the latter idea but I guess they feel intellectually (and marketing wise) constrained to offer an OEF and CEF of the exact same strategy. It would have been nice if they converted DSEEX into a CEF and do more secondaries to increase AUM as I think DSEEX in a CEF would outperform DSEEX OEF (on a NAV basis).
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Post by paulr888 on Jul 29, 2021 23:22:38 GMT
I would be quite surprised if DoubleLine would try to force their OEF investors into a CEF. There is a lot more risk in the CEF. I just can't see DoubleLine trying to do that. I am a long time fan of DoubleLine. I do not have a limit on OEF funds I invest in. I do have a limit of 20% PV for CEFs and I am there already. So a forced conversion would not make me happy. They would certainly hear from me. CEF DSEEX should outperform OEF DSEEX. That is not the point.
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Post by anitya on Jul 29, 2021 23:54:59 GMT
I would be quite surprised if DoubleLine would try to force their OEF investors into a CEF. There is a lot more risk in the CEF. I just can't see DoubleLine trying to do that. I am a long time fan of DoubleLine. I do not have a limit on OEF funds I invest in. I do have a limit of 20% PV for CEFs and I am there already. So a forced conversion would not make me happy. They would certainly hear from me. CEF DSEEX should outperform OEF DSEEX. That is not the point. You do not have to worry. They are not forcing. Do you own DSEEX? I currently own only DSEEX of the DL products. Previously owned other products from them as well. Not a groupie, just an investor!
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Post by oldskeet on Jul 29, 2021 23:59:26 GMT
For those thatt wish to follow BTCFX daily gain (or loss) here is a link to Yahoo Finance set for BTCFX. finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTCFX/On July 28, 2021 it began trading at a nav price of $25.00 per share. On July 29, 2021 it lost 1.84% and closed @$24.54 down -$0.46 for the day.
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 30, 2021 0:40:35 GMT
For those thatt wish to follow BTCFX daily gain (or loss) here is a link to Yahoo Finance set for BTCFX. finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTCFX/On July 28, 2021 it began trading at a nav price of $25.00 per share. On July 29, 2021 it lost 1.84% and closed @$24.54 down -$0.46 for the day. Strange that quote isn't found elsewhere - I checked Nasdaq, MarketWatch, Google Finance, etc.
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Post by paulr888 on Jul 30, 2021 3:27:04 GMT
I would be quite surprised if DoubleLine would try to force their OEF investors into a CEF. There is a lot more risk in the CEF. I just can't see DoubleLine trying to do that. I am a long time fan of DoubleLine. I do not have a limit on OEF funds I invest in. I do have a limit of 20% PV for CEFs and I am there already. So a forced conversion would not make me happy. They would certainly hear from me. CEF DSEEX should outperform OEF DSEEX. That is not the point. You do not have to worry. They are not forcing. Do you own DSEEX? I currently own only DSEEX of the DL products. Previously owned other products from them as well. Not a groupie, just an investor! I am not worried. I was just responding to your "It would have been nice if they converted DSEEX into a CEF". I own 10 DoubleLine funds including DSEEX in my Rollover IRA. I have a little over 50 total holdings in my Rollover IRA. I like DoubleLine a lot. They have been good to me, educating me how to invest among other things. I like that they explain the strategy of their funds and suggest how to assemble them in a cohesive portfolio instead of me buying a la carte from multiple one off shops and trying to figure out how to use them. Particularly valuable to me as portfolio construction is high priority along with identifying multiple risks and how to cover in my quest to maintain an all-bases-covered portfolio to the best of my ability. I follow their many podcasts and webcasts and roundtables. But I seem to be in the minority in this forum. I actually don't mind devoting an hour for education from professionals who know more about the subject matter than I do.
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Post by anitya on Jul 30, 2021 6:19:32 GMT
"I follow their many podcasts and webcasts and roundtables. But I seem to be in the minority in this forum."
I would not assume anything.
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Post by oldskeet on Jul 30, 2021 11:58:24 GMT
yogibearbull, Hi YBB, I could get a nav quote at M* for BTCFX and at Yahoo Finance; but, I could not save the ticker symbol in portfolio manager to continue to follow it. Perhaps, in a few days portfolio manager will accept it. OS
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Post by oldskeet on Jul 30, 2021 13:48:40 GMT
I was just able, as I write, to set BTCFX up in M*'s portfolio manager within my watch list.
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Post by retiredat48 on Jul 30, 2021 15:33:19 GMT
I am not worried. I was just responding to your "It would have been nice if they converted DSEEX into a CEF". I own 10 DoubleLine funds including DSEEX in my Rollover IRA. I have a little over 50 total holdings in my Rollover IRA. I like DoubleLine a lot. They have been good to me, educating me how to invest among other things. I like that they explain the strategy of their funds and suggest how to assemble them in a cohesive portfolio instead of me buying a la carte from multiple one off shops and trying to figure out how to use them. Particularly valuable to me as portfolio construction is high priority along with identifying multiple risks and how to cover in my quest to maintain an all-bases-covered portfolio to the best of my ability. I follow their many podcasts and webcasts and roundtables. But I seem to be in the minority in this forum. I actually don't mind devoting an hour for education from professionals who know more about the subject matter than I do. (Anitya...I can't edit and get your name out of this post header?? Post is by Paul.) I own doubleline funds and use them (Gundlach) as a primary source of market outlooks etc. I send much of this Doubleline info to my investing kids, also. So with you and us doing same, Paul, that now makes us the "majority."! R48
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Post by anitya on Jul 30, 2021 19:00:45 GMT
My favorite posters have shown enthusiasm about BTCFX. I am now intrigued but will delay studying it and hope to see future updates (incl performance) about it in this thread as you guys follow it - just a division of labor.
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Post by anitya on Aug 7, 2021 1:05:01 GMT
The staying power of Crypto, at least in the US, notwithstanding Crypto's support for so much ransomware actors and the collateral national security issues, is demonstrated by its political power. When billionaires and Congressmen invest in something, it is bound to have power. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/crypto-bitcoin-infrastructure-senate/ We will be far behind China in dealing with Crypto, as with use of CBDC. Are we too stubborn to pick-up good ideas from others? The brilliance of Apple is though it is hardly an innovator it is an excellent second mover and the best executioner out there.
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Post by oldskeet on Sept 1, 2021 12:57:54 GMT
Hi guys,
FYI ... As I write ... For the past rolling 30 days BTCFX is up +18.34%.
Old_Skeet
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Post by bb2 on Sept 1, 2021 16:55:39 GMT
I'm not saying this means anything; I just find it interesting. If you have CNBC on at all, look up when they talk crypto. You'll see it's sponsored by Greyscale. It looks like news coverage but it's paid advertising. And they'll interview a crypto booster.
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Post by graust on Sept 5, 2021 3:08:17 GMT
Thanks oldskeetI bought some ($1k only) BTCFX in my mutual fund only brokerage link Fidelity 403b. I have dabbled some in GBTC, ETHE, and BTC and ETH themselves, but nothing major. Let’s see how it goes! Actually, end of July would have been a great time to buy this fund…..as BTC has climbed back towards $50K. Teach me to not listen to a smart guy like you!
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Post by oldskeet on Sept 5, 2021 11:25:28 GMT
Hi graust , Thanks for making comment. I have BTCFX on my watch list and don't currently own it. Since, this is a high octane fund I'm going to wait for a good pullback before I consider putting money to work in it. Because it is a capital appreciation type fund, from my perspective, the way to make money in it is to trade it. Buy it low and sell it high. Then repeat the buy and sell process. Seems, to me, FD1000 would be all over this? Being retired (age 73) I have moved into more of a buy and hold type investor into slower moving market currents. However, I am consdering giving it a go as I use to trade around the edges years back with spiff positions (special investments) more so than I do now. Old_Skeet's T/A Charting. For me ... Now is not the time to make a play in GBTC ... My suggestion, follow the commodity channel and keep it simple. stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=GBTC&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p08445255942I sincerely hope this goes well for you. Old_Skeet
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Post by graust on Sept 8, 2021 20:31:06 GMT
So I bought an initial $1K in my brokerage link Fidelity account…..now it says I have to call a representative to trade the fund. Good ol’ Fido….I was going to close it out but I’m down 7% already and that doesn’t include whatever happens today. Not that it’s about that……but come on, Fidelity! (And yes, I made sure that my financial profile was set to most aggressive, etc.)
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Post by oldskeet on Sept 9, 2021 10:58:13 GMT
Hi graust , I am sorry to learn that you are now meeting headwinds in your BTCFX position. However ... The way BTCFX moves (both up and down) it should not take you long to recapture that 7% ding should you stick to "The Plan." Linked below is a refresher on the system that Old_Skeet uses. Don't forget to click on the YouTube link and enjoy "The Whipsaw Song." www.trendfollowing.com/seykota_rules/And, also its charting. stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=GBTC&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p87626835552Keeping it simple, I generally follow the CCI as my leading indicator. A brief blurb on the CCI reads as follows: "The CCI compares the current price to an average price over a period of time. The indicator fluctuates above or below zero, moving into positive or negative territory. While most values, approximately 75%, fall between -100 and +100, about 25% of the values fall outside this range, indicating a lot of weakness or strength in the price movement." I generally buy on weakness and, if desired, sell on strength. Again, I sincerely wish you the very best with your investing endeavors. Old_Skeet
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Post by oldskeet on Oct 9, 2021 13:24:20 GMT
Hi guys,
In my following the Bitcoin Mutual Fund I thought you'd like to know how it is performing.
BTCFX opened for purchase on July 28, 2021 at $25.00 per share. As of market close October 9, it's nav share price was listed at $33.85 for a gain of $8.85 per share. This computes to a 35.4% gain.
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j747
Ensign
Posts: 1
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Post by j747 on Oct 10, 2021 3:36:20 GMT
Hi guys, In my following the Bitcoin Mutual Fund I thought you'd like to know how it is performing. BTCFX opened for purchase on July 28, 2021 at $25.00 per share. As of market close October 9, it's nav share price was listed at $33.85 for a gain of $8.85 per share. This computes to a 35.4% gain. I bought Bitcoin directly at the exchange, 41% gain for the same time frame, in addition I am keeping my bitcoin on lending platform for yearly 6.2%, paid weekly. Bitcoin is 55k currently, can go to 100k within the next 12 months. It is long term hold.
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