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Post by Norbert on Jul 23, 2021 6:48:18 GMT
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Post by Chahta on Jul 23, 2021 15:54:30 GMT
Great quote from Ms. Obvious. Isn't this a similar point over 1 year ago that the president was faulted for not acting? Coercing citizens to be vaccinated is not acting.
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Post by johntaylor on Jul 24, 2021 15:51:37 GMT
Walensky said: "This virus has no incentive to let up, and it remains in search of the next vulnerable person to infect."
Isn't that the Pathetic Fallacy of attributing human ideas and behavior to things in nature?
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Post by Norbert on Jul 24, 2021 16:08:03 GMT
Walensky said: "This virus has no incentive to let up, and it remains in search of the next vulnerable person to infect." Isn't that the Pathetic Fallacy of attributing human ideas and behavior to things in nature? Say what? That's obviously not what the writer was suggesting.
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Post by Chahta on Jul 24, 2021 21:50:44 GMT
The virus is always looking for the next (unvaccinated) victim. That is how they exist.
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Post by johntaylor on Jul 25, 2021 16:46:33 GMT
In the "Pathetic Fallacy" (Ruskin), human emotions are projected on nature -- a cloud will be "weeping" (Keats), there will be "furious" gusts (Dickens), winds will be "scolding" (Shakespeare), the sea will be "cruel" (Monsarrat).
My daughter (a M.D.) said Dr. Walensky was sort of projecting human emotions onto the virus but asked: "What better way to describe it to a general audience?"
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Post by steelpony10 on Aug 9, 2021 23:44:52 GMT
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Post by Norbert on Aug 10, 2021 13:37:24 GMT
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Post by retiredat48 on Aug 10, 2021 16:50:21 GMT
Norbert...I think your OP posting data is now out-of-date, and incorrect.
Actual numbers of hospitalizations of vaccinated (breakthrough) cases is rising.
R48
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dgva
Ensign
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Post by dgva on Aug 11, 2021 1:01:16 GMT
Norbert...I think your OP posting data is now out-of-date, and incorrect. Actual numbers of hospitalizations of vaccinated (breakthrough) cases is rising. R48 Are you referencing national, state or local data (please provide link)? The gap in serious illness/death rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated remains huge. In Virginia, the data available to date are 97.33% of hospitalized are unvaccinated and 98.2% of deaths are in unvaccinated. The hospitalization and death rate in fully vaccinated (14 days after full vaccination) are 0.0047% and 0.0011%.
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Post by Chahta on Aug 11, 2021 4:11:31 GMT
Norbert...I think your OP posting data is now out-of-date, and incorrect. Actual numbers of hospitalizations of vaccinated (breakthrough) cases is rising. R48 It has happened in CA in a couple of counties.
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dgva
Ensign
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Post by dgva on Aug 11, 2021 10:40:53 GMT
Norbert...I think your OP posting data is now out-of-date, and incorrect. Actual numbers of hospitalizations of vaccinated (breakthrough) cases is rising. R48 It has happened in CA in a couple of counties. Could you provide the county names or the link to the data? I ask because the only recent info on CA was cited in the LA Times saying the risk of hospitalization in LA County was 19 times higher in the unvaccinated. www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-07/with-breakthrough-infections-some-vaccinated-people-look-for-more-protection-are-boosters-neededThe take away from the OP was that vaccines are overwhelmingly successful at preventing hospitalization and death. That statement remains valid. R48 It has happened in CA in a couple of counties.
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Post by Norbert on Aug 11, 2021 16:43:40 GMT
Norbert...I think your OP posting data is now out-of-date, and incorrect. Actual numbers of hospitalizations of vaccinated (breakthrough) cases is rising. R48
Yes, actual numbers of hospitalizations of vaccinated (breakthrough) cases is rising. However, my quote goes to the huge imbalance between vaccinated and non-vaccinated patients. I don't think this has changed.
It might change going forwards, however, if it turns out that the Pfizer vaccine is only efficacious for a limited period; or if a new variant renders the vaccines ineffective. On the other hand, booster shots are coming and new vaccines are in the pipeline.
The Covid story isn't over yet, but I remain optimistic.
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Post by paulr888 on Aug 11, 2021 17:36:45 GMT
Hi Norbert ... Here in the Bay Area kids are going back to school and I worry mostly about the under 12 yr old kids who cannot get vaccinated. To me, the only way to protect the little kids is to have all the adults and the kids over 12 yr old to get vaccinated. Last night on local news one parent brought his kids in to get vaxed but he himself said he did not believe in the vax and refused to get vaxed. Some kids are getting infected at home from unvaxed parents. And some teachers are unvaxed but this is changing in some parts. Again, to me, this madness has to stop. Seems to me vax mandate is only solution at this point.
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Post by Norbert on Aug 11, 2021 18:08:39 GMT
paulr888I fail to understand the anti-vax mentality. It needs to be made very inconvenient for these people to work, travel, and shop. In the name of "freedom", they're compromising everyone else's freedom.
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Post by Majick on Aug 11, 2021 22:01:44 GMT
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Post by retiredat48 on Aug 12, 2021 12:45:09 GMT
While I may post more later, let's start with some data.
Data such as the news release this morning, from a Mayo Clinic Study summarized on national TV, which showed the efficacy of vaccines re preventing Covid Delta (breakthrough) infections:
Pfizer...42%
Moderna...76%
(The covid vaccine companies say it is higher)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seems the vaccinated folks should not be dancing in the streets, and those government personnel and doctors stating six weeks ago, that Covid is now a "pandemic of the unvaccinated", need to recalibrate quickly. IMO these type of statements resulted in a complete letdown of their guard by the vaccinated people over 4th of July etc, and contributed greatly to the new outbreak.
R48
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Post by Norbert on Aug 12, 2021 13:18:58 GMT
While I may post more later, let's start with some data. Data such as the news release this morning, from a Mayo Clinic Study summarized on national TV, which showed the efficacy of vaccines re preventing Covid Delta (breakthrough) infections:
Pfizer...42%
Moderna...76%(The covid vaccine companies say it is higher) -------------------------------------------------------------- Seems the vaccinated folks should not be dancing in the streets, and those government personnel and doctors stating six weeks ago, that Covid is now a " pandemic of the unvaccinated", need to recalibrate quickly. IMO these type of statements resulted in a complete letdown of their guard by the vaccinated people over 4th of July etc, and contributed greatly to the new outbreak. R48
This is not good news. The Delta variant is extremely contagious.
But there's a big difference between getting infected and becoming ill. All vaccines are doing a very good job keeping people out of the hospital. The CDC says the risk of hospitalization is 25x higher for unvaccinated folks.
EDIT: New Jersey reports that 3% of recent new hospitalizations were for fully vaccinated people.
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Post by racqueteer on Aug 12, 2021 13:27:06 GMT
I note that none of the vaccines were 100% effective even on the previous variants, so there was never a guarantee you couldn't catch the existing viruses; much less any new variants. Part of the issue, however, has to be the potential for reducing the severity of any resulting infection. A more useful statistic would be the relative hospitalization figures. I don't have access to specifics, but my understanding is that there appears to be a WIDE disparity between vaccinated and unvaccinated hospitalization figures.
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Post by Norbert on Aug 12, 2021 13:36:11 GMT
racqueteer , "A new CDC report shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less." Source: HERE
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Post by anitya on Aug 12, 2021 14:32:58 GMT
I note that none of the vaccines were 100% effective even on the previous variants, so there was never a guarantee you couldn't catch the existing viruses; much less any new variants. Part of the issue, however, has to be the potential for reducing the severity of any resulting infection. A more useful statistic would be the relative hospitalization figures. I don't have access to specifics, but my understanding is that there appears to be a WIDE disparity between vaccinated and unvaccinated hospitalization figures. +1. There is so much misinformation in this thread. I am glad you have more patience than I have.
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Post by anitya on Aug 12, 2021 14:34:01 GMT
racqueteer , "A new CDC report shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less." Source: HERE +1.
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Post by win1177 on Aug 12, 2021 15:07:53 GMT
And the vast majority of these “breakthrough infections” did NOT result in death or hospitalizations. Bottom line is the vaccines are doing what we hoped they would do, prevent serious illness, hospitalizations, and deaths.
Win
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Post by Chahta on Aug 12, 2021 15:30:39 GMT
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Post by Norbert on Aug 12, 2021 15:35:17 GMT
Why do you find the article "disturbing"? TIA.
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Post by Chahta on Aug 12, 2021 15:36:37 GMT
Why do you find the article "disturbing"? TIA.
Because now I am seeing 19% are breakthrough cases. The government’s line is pretty much 0 cases. Who knows? More crap info. I am sure you have seen the raging argument at AC about non vaxed people. Are we heading to a huge number where vaxed or not doesn’t matter?
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Post by Norbert on Aug 12, 2021 15:45:26 GMT
Why do you find the article "disturbing"? TIA.
Because now I am seeing 19% are breakthrough cases. The government’s line is pretty much 0 cases. Who knows? More crap info. I am sure you have seen the raging argument at AC about non vaxed people. Are we heading to a huge number where vaxed or not doesn’t matter? Hi,
No, have not been reading at AC. But, why do you write "vaxed or not doesn't matter" (looking ahead)? The odds of serious illness if vaccinated is near 0%. Again, huge difference between being infected and being ill! Vaccinated persons might carry the virus, but will very likely not become ill.
It's a different story for unvaccinated persons with poor immunity.
N.
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Post by racqueteer on Aug 12, 2021 16:21:19 GMT
Why do you find the article "disturbing"? TIA.
Because now I am seeing 19% are breakthrough cases. The government’s line is pretty much 0 cases. Who knows? More crap info. I am sure you have seen the raging argument at AC about non vaxed people. Are we heading to a huge number where vaxed or not doesn’t matter? I'm not sure what issue you're concerned about? Not being flippant; just not clear on where you're going with this. It appears that if you are vaxed, your likelihood of hospitalization and/or death is greatly reduced. Vaccination does not automatically confer immunity, but it can be argued that a so-called "herd immunity" seldom occurs in the absence of an effective vaccine. New variants may not be impacted by older vaccination formulae. Vaccinated people CAN become infected, and if they are, can then infect others. Less likely, but possible. Nothing unexpected about any of that. Vaccinated is an objectively better state to be in than to be unvaccinated; at least in terms of one's own well-being.
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Post by Chahta on Aug 12, 2021 16:29:10 GMT
Breakthroughs are increasing. What lies ahead then? Vaccinations were the answer until they’re not. If 19% is the max the OK. But if it keeps climbing…
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Post by racqueteer on Aug 12, 2021 16:56:01 GMT
Breakthroughs are increasing. What lies ahead then? Vaccinations were the answer until they’re not. If 19% is the max then OK. But if it keeps climbing… The issue isn't people getting sick. The key issues are hospitalizations and deaths. That problem needs fixing FIRST. THEN we can focus on getting the number of people actively infected down. All those things require some commonsense actions. Vaccinations are a necessary component, but they are not a "magic bullet"; especially if a sizeable percentage of the population refuse to vaccinate - or wear masks - or allow their kids to do so - or take even minimal steps to mitigate exposure - or act responsibly. I won't even get into the idiots who believe vaccines involve "chips", "trackers", "remote destruct devices", and Lord knows what else...
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