dirk
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Post by dirk on Jul 19, 2021 1:06:54 GMT
FWIW, I'm asking this on assorted boards, trying to see where responses are fastest in coming...
I have only a couple of Chinese stocks (ADRs of BABA and BYDDY) in my Roth IRA. I've been following only tangentially the hoo-ha over the possibility of those and other stocks being delisted, but decided to ask our community what they're doing, if anything. Selling? Staying put? Buying?
I'm not going to get rid of my mutual funds that have holdings in Chinese firms, but I'm wondering if selling my individual stock holdings might be prudent. Note that I'd rather not...I like the potential of both firms going forward...BUT I have no wish to be left holding the proverbial bag, either.
Opinions?
Thanks, Dirk
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 19, 2021 1:23:07 GMT
Research China Mobile (AUM $125 billion) delisting in January this year. This wasn't a small fish. Retail US holders of China Mobile are still in limbo - they cannot sell their shares held in US brokerages, and it may be too expensive for them to get legal/professional help to unload these shares in HK. Reasons for delisting here were different but just be aware what can happen when sudden delisting does happen. Barron's has also been warning about this in recent weeks. Also replied at M*.
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dirk
Ensign
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Post by dirk on Jul 19, 2021 1:49:14 GMT
Yogi, you’re EVERYWHERE! 😉
Thanks again, Dirk
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Post by anitya on Jul 19, 2021 2:28:39 GMT
Re delisting, for different reasons both the US Govt and Chinese Govt want the delisting. Given this common drive, my working assumption is all Chinese companies eventually could be delisted from the US. My China play is entirely through dedicated China OEFs.
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Post by richardsok on Jul 20, 2021 16:09:57 GMT
FWIW, I'm asking this on assorted boards, trying to see where responses are fastest in coming... I have only a couple of Chinese stocks (ADRs of BABA and BYDDY) in my Roth IRA. I've been following only tangentially the hoo-ha over the possibility of those and other stocks being delisted, but decided to ask our community what they're doing, if anything. Selling? Staying put? Buying? I'm not going to get rid of my mutual funds that have holdings in Chinese firms, but I'm wondering if selling my individual stock holdings might be prudent. Note that I'd rather not...I like the potential of both firms going forward...BUT I have no wish to be left holding the proverbial bag, either. Opinions? Thanks, Dirk Besides attempting to trade opportunistically in VTI, I am staying well away from China. With current geo-political and economic tensions, the risk of total "lock up" of one's investment is just too high. And I haven't even touched upon doubts about their economic reporting and my suspicion the only facts I read coming from China are "facts" the CCP wants me to read. IMO there are plenty of Asian investments that would likely move in sympathy with Chinese equities. From Nixon onward, every US president has hoped that our good will and expanded trade would bring on a moderate and responsible Chinese leadership class. That fond hope does not seem to be realized.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 20:09:19 GMT
I sold BIDU recently and will soon sell BABA. These are the only two Chinese stocks in my portfolio.
I have some EM funds which I will continue to hold.
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 21, 2021 15:30:23 GMT
I have (reluctantly) sold my China specific holdings. I’ll let managers of VWILX and others decide for me how much China to hold. My bet is long term this is mostly noise but I just don’t want the hassle at this point in my life.
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dirk
Ensign
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Post by dirk on Jul 23, 2021 19:55:15 GMT
I have (reluctantly) sold my China specific holdings. I’ll let managers of VWILX and others decide for me how much China to hold. My bet is long term this is mostly noise but I just don’t want the hassle at this point in my life. As the OP of this thread, I will say "ditto" right down the line. Including the "reluctantly." Sold my BABA (held since its IPO) and BYDDY earlier this week and will rearrange some holdings to increase my investment in VWILX for large cap exposure. PRIDX takes care of small cap international for me and is already fully funded to my preference. Dirk
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Post by anitya on Jul 23, 2021 23:59:04 GMT
I have (reluctantly) sold my China specific holdings. I’ll let managers of VWILX and others decide for me how much China to hold. My bet is long term this is mostly noise but I just don’t want the hassle at this point in my life. Very timely. They fell 3% today. I have said it before. All I have to do is copy your trades to make more money. P.S.: still holding, unfortunately, thinking that all the regulatory risks are divulged (disclosed / known).
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 24, 2021 0:38:39 GMT
anitya, Please don't copy anything I do. I'm flying blind mostly and follow my (as Limoman would say) end-stink. Stay well!
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mrc
Lieutenant
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Post by mrc on Jul 24, 2021 1:01:27 GMT
I bought both BABA and BIDU one and a half months ago. Since both are less than 1% of my portfolio, I am going to keep them. Bought MCHFX today. I bought my first China fund MCSMX in December 2019 when trade-war tensions were high. It did not disappoint. Hopefully, MCHFX will also not disappoint. I could have added to MCSMX instead of buying yet another fund, but having BABA as its top pick attracted me towards MCHFX. :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 1:41:24 GMT
Staying with INTL's and EM's long time underperformance requires a lot of patience.
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Post by chang on Jul 24, 2021 1:52:15 GMT
Staying with INTL's and EM's long time underperformance requires a lot of patience. If you're excessively overallocated, then yes it does. I am over "market weight" in EMs .... way more, actually .... but the U.S. has carried me upward satisfactorily. Sure, with hindsight, I would have been better off over the last few years with 100% QQQ, but hindsight is always 20/20. I'm diversified enough that my PV has risen nicely enough for me to claim victory, which affords me the luxury of indulging in (temporarily) less successful investing ventures. We saw how China surged in Q1 this year before recent news stories bogged it down. That indicates a classic dip to me. I haven't bought this particular dip vigorously because I am comfortable with my EM "overweight" such as it is, but EM is the only area where I see value at the moment (and I did buy a smidgen more FEMKX today). Staying with anything that has underperformed for 5+ years requires patience. On the other hand, constant successful trading requires gifted insight, a crystal ball, and luck. Frankly, I think patience is easier to muster.
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Post by roi2020 on Jul 26, 2021 6:23:34 GMT
China started a crackdown against some of its prominent tech companies. The author implies that China wants to prioritize "military" tech instead of consumer internet tech. This seems plausible when you consider President Xi's ambitions to achieve geopolitical dominance. Link
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 26, 2021 12:13:05 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 14:04:52 GMT
Yeah, Chinese stock fell last night. I saw some analyst saying it is not the time to bottom fish in chinese equities as they do not know where the bottom is.
(Note: I do not follow Chinese markets. I have been reducing exposure to China though it seems not fast enough)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 15:29:08 GMT
Well, it’s a concerning situation. I have China exposure in BABA, AIA, and 2 emerging mutual funds. I haven’t decided what to do, if anything.
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Post by anitya on Jul 26, 2021 16:01:43 GMT
I do not think anything about the way China operates changed, other than its economic success, since the communists came to power. Dang Xiaoping was the first communist party head of Tibet and western China and when he became the head of the country, we established the foundation of the US-China trade relationship as he introduced market based economy. China’s territorial and mercantile ambitions are not new. It makes territorial claims on all its neighbors, even after occupying their territories. US has been the biggest enabler by way of turning a blind eye all along when it had the leverage and choice.
So, human rights, technology stealing, and other issues the US is now pounding the table about seems like marrying somebody and then asking that person to change. In this case, asking the spouse to change to a different person after 35 years of marriage. China will not, can not change its broader course because its DNA has been the same all along. The current problem in the relationship is US’ change of heart or a mis-direction. Divorce is a potential solution. China is already working on that possibility and has started its process of not depending on the US at least 5 years ago. US-China probably will just end up as frenemies at some level.
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Post by win1177 on Jul 26, 2021 22:31:21 GMT
I am hanging on to my 300 shares BABA, which I bought as a long term “hold”, hoping they will become the “Amazon” of China. But it sold off today, so I may be in for some short term pain. Going to hang on for now.
Win
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Post by Chahta on Jul 26, 2021 22:34:36 GMT
What Chinese stock holdings? 😀
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mrc
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
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Post by mrc on Jul 26, 2021 23:53:29 GMT
Actually, I am adding.
Bought Matthews China fund MCHFX on Friday and added to it today. Also, added to MCSMX that I bought in Dec, 2019 (referred to it a few times in other threads).
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Post by chang on Jul 27, 2021 3:18:17 GMT
Actually, I am adding. Bought Matthews China fund MCHFX on Friday and added to it today. Also, added to MCSMX that I bought in Dec, 2019 (referred to it a few times in other threads). I'm tempted to follow you into MIAPX and MITEX. This looks like a colossal dip to me — for investors with a LT outlook.
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Post by fishingrod on Jul 27, 2021 3:37:39 GMT
Actually, I am adding. Bought Matthews China fund MCHFX on Friday and added to it today. Also, added to MCSMX that I bought in Dec, 2019 (referred to it a few times in other threads). I'm tempted to follow you into MIAPX and MITEX. This looks like a colossal dip to me — for investors with a LT outlook.
You may be right but it is only 19% off the top of a 129% gain since 3/23/2020 for MIAPX.
Fishingrod
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 4:02:07 GMT
Quote from a bloomberg article I saw on Yahoo finance today-
"“Everybody’s in the cross-hairs,” said Fraser Howie, an independent analyst and co-author of books on Chinese finance who has been following the country’s corporate sector for decades. “This is a very difficult environment to navigate, when over the weekend your business can basically be written down to zero by state edict, how on Earth are you to plan for that?”
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 27, 2021 13:24:01 GMT
Concerns are very high for Chinese stocks/ADRs listed in the US, less for mutual funds and ETFs. Presumably, fund managers can navigate through this better. China has quite a heavy weight in the EM indexes and that isn't changing soon, although some new indexes are being developed for EM ex-China. It seems that HK and Shanghai are now flat for 1 year, after sharp declines overnight. I will look through the stuff today and may add some to my Matthew Asia funds. HK www.cnbc.com/quotes/.HSIShanghai www.cnbc.com/quotes/.SSEC
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 14:33:50 GMT
it is so hard to resist what looks like a sale in Chinese equities but chinese state edicts could have permanently changed the valuation of these companies on the downside..
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mrc
Lieutenant
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Post by mrc on Jul 27, 2021 19:32:28 GMT
Actually, I am adding. Bought Matthews China fund MCHFX on Friday and added to it today. Also, added to MCSMX that I bought in Dec, 2019 (referred to it a few times in other threads). I'm tempted to follow you into MIAPX and MITEX. This looks like a colossal dip to me — for investors with a LT outlook. I thought a lot about buying more value leaning fund MCDFX (or MAIPX instead), but finally chose MCHFX as difference in valuations between Value and Growth is not much in China (or for that matter in in EM and International sub-asset classes) unlike in US. Added to MCHFX today. It will still be less than 1% of my portfolio. Like you, I am also overweight in EM.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 20:33:40 GMT
I still don’t know what to think. I knew there was risk so am not surprised. My etfs and mutuals with China - tempted to just sit on them. Not sure how AIA works, but if the Chinese companies peel off and ones from Taiwan and South Korea become more prominent, that would be fine. My BABA exposure is pretty minor, and if I sold it wouldn’t be a tragedy. That’s it right? We don’t know. TBD. It’s the second biggest economy in the world, so no matter how you slice or dice it, we are all invested in them in some manner.
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Post by anitya on Jul 27, 2021 20:38:27 GMT
Duplicate post from BSW thread -
Bought today TCELX and BABA. Thanks RM!
Disclosure: My total China dedicated investment is more than 60% of total dedicated international investment, which is only 2% of total port.
I can not say China bottomed today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 20:56:32 GMT
So what are your thoughts behind buying Anitya?
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