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Post by chang on Jul 9, 2021 1:31:48 GMT
Moving your comment anitya here, since this is OT to the original thread: P.S.: chang , not a recommendation but I say this with trepidation that may be open a thread for Politics ("Domestic and International Politics") so other threads can move more smoothly - no need to reply. I don't see any problem with rational discussion of politics as it pertains to investing. Politics and investing routinely intersect. My idea/request is to keep politics off the Off-Topic board, since standalone (off-topic) political discussions don't seem to add value, as shown on M* and AC. And those forums are already available for political harangues. My previously stated guideline is to discuss and debate as you would with both old friends and new acquaintances in a coffeehouse with other people listening in. There is no ban or discouragement of on-topic politics on other boards. I don't see a problem with the "China crackdown" thread OP or subsequent replies. I don't see any personal attacks, mud slinging, tu quoque/ad hominems, etc. This forum isn't a sterile operating room; some latitude for expression of relevant opinions - even moral judgements - should be OK. I am not inclined to create a "Politics" board, although I'm willing to hear views and opinions. M* and AC demonstrate that these boards attract posters who only post there, only post about politics, and do so obnoxiously. That's not really what I had in mind with this forum. I wanted to learn from others, increase my investing knowledge, and make my financial future more secure ..... and provide the same opportunity to others. I learn nothing from people who agree with me: I wanted to create a place for productive debate, discussion and challenge of ideas and assumptions. A place for sharing and collaboration. A cerebral environment where people could theorize and experiment, challenge conventional wisdom, share past experiences, and fertilize new ideas. I don't see this kind of atmosphere in the politics forums on other sites. I'm not sure anybody on those pages has ever learned anything new from anybody. I recall that AC had to ring fence, isolate and hide its porcine enclosure to prevent the vitriol from spilling out into the investment threads. After 6 months, 19 days, with 149 members, 535 threads and 6,122 posts, I don't think we've done too badly! Thoughts? |
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 9, 2021 2:27:29 GMT
+1! I enjoy a political slant if it is directly applied to an investment outcome, not on its moral grounds alone. We all have our opinions and better outlets to express if we feel the need. I’d rather post about my drumming and cooking, frankly. We as a community and chang , as a creator and moderator have very done well, IMO. Bravo! |
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Post by yogibearbull on Jul 9, 2021 2:36:48 GMT
I think that the reason the Politics Board/Forum was hidden at AC was that at some point those posts were overwhelming the Recent Posts and Recent Threads views.
So, depending on how the politics posts develop here, creating an open/visible place for politics (Thread or Board/Forum) may work for a while (like at AC), but may have to be hidden eventually, with access to it with a known link only.
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Post by richardsok on Jul 9, 2021 2:38:13 GMT
Anitya has a point, albeit a perilous one. I too wish we could have a political thread because I detest censorship of any kind. But how does one open up such a forum that doesn't promptly devolve into abuse and infantilism -- as we see in other message boards? Chang is right in that there are single-issue people who obsess over politics and rant & abuse endlessly, and we are fortunate no such bullies have tried to elbow their way here into Big B.
On the other hand, we have many thoughtful and respected posters here, any one of whose thoughts I'd welcome. It's a shame to muzzle them. There are people here I admire and even trust.
It's a problem. Last year I and my very oldest friend -- a guy I've know for over forty years -- stopped talking to each other over the political ranting. After nine months silence, I sent him a Christmas card and a brief "peace" note. Nary a word back, so that's that.
Perhaps the present arrangement, unsatisfactory as it is, may be for the best. There are plenty of social clubs that bar political conversations. We're hardly alone.
OTOH, the "known link" idea might be workable. I'm open.
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Post by chang on Jul 9, 2021 2:54:04 GMT
richardsok Don't forget about the "Message" feature: feel free to contact anybody and have offline conversations, as raunchy as you like. "Muzzle" is an awfully strong word; but I think the almost-grotesque political sandboxes on other forums set an example I don't want to follow. I'd simply prefer to recognize that political vents and insults go together with constructive investing analysis like pastrami and whipped cream. This just isn't the place.
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Post by anitya on Jul 9, 2021 3:03:39 GMT
As a forum, we have exercised very good discipline and restraint to maintain an investing focus. There is an occasional creep of ideology, bordering dogma, in the name of investing discussion but it has not gone out of hand. To me the benchmark for a clean investing discussion is yogibearbull posting and something to strive for. I am not suggesting there is only one flavor of a clean discussion - anything devoid of dogma and know it all is good and provides an environment to learn and grow. If there is a politics thread, I can just block it. Without it, I can always use the member block feature, which I would prefer not to use. I recognize the spillover effects of allowing political threads. I am happy with whatever you guys decide. If there is a political forum, I hope it is titled Domestic and International Politics to force people to see contradictions and not delve into morals, religion, etc. |
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Post by chang on Jul 9, 2021 10:10:18 GMT
Having given it some thought, I remain cool to the idea. Other political discussion boards are not flattering -- and they're already there if someone wants to be an active participant on one of them. Also, I like the idea of keeping this site ad-free, but I don't really want to subsidize the extra page views for a political sandbox. Hope nobody is too disappointed!
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Post by racqueteer on Jul 9, 2021 11:09:43 GMT
Fwiw, I'm inclined to agree with you about avoiding the political threads. Anyone willing to 'discuss' the topic would tend to already be fixed in their viewpoint; so it isn't as if they're going to be able to convince anyone else of the wrongness of their opinion. It's simply a place to argue, without effect, endlessly, about the same topics. I don't personally see the attraction; it doesn't really add anything to an investing site; and generates a lot of ill-will and divisiveness. Plenty of other places for it.
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Post by Chahta on Jul 9, 2021 11:30:52 GMT
It's not called "the pigpen" for nothing at Armchair. It always boils down to the same old crap. Then the moderator needs to pick a side. No thanks.
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Post by jongaltiii on Jul 9, 2021 12:44:36 GMT
chang - I'd like to offer an opinion (as the newbie here). Please be very cautious with this decision (as it sounds like you are). One can visit many different forums that are perfect for Politics. I visit investing forums for investment ideas, strategy and advice etc. If you open a hidden thread or separate thread - that has consequences as well. Here's what I mean: Once I am "forced" or happen to view ones politics or political ranting, it does color my view on their investing advice and market outlook etc. I wish it didn't but I'm being honest. Yes politics and investing often intersect but I think this forum handles it perfectly as is. I wouldn't change a thing.
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Post by Norbert on Jul 9, 2021 14:07:52 GMT
Agreed. Nothing good will be gained.
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Post by anitya on Jul 9, 2021 14:50:52 GMT
Good that we all agree to keep personal politics out of Big Bang. I admire posters whose personal politics I am not aware of because it requires certain level of restraint on their part. Most of those who make their personal politics known at Big Bang do not seem to invest in line with their personal politics. I get that when people let others know about their own personal politics, it is out of angst that the world is not exactly like how they would like it to be.
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Post by Capital on Jul 9, 2021 14:52:48 GMT
I will not be involved in political discussions. IMHO people in this day and age take it too seriously.
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hondo
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Post by hondo on Jul 9, 2021 14:57:46 GMT
Fwiw, I'm inclined to agree with you about avoiding the political threads. Anyone willing to 'discuss' the topic would tend to already be fixed in their viewpoint; so it isn't as if they're going to be able to convince anyone else of the wrongness of their opinion. It's simply a place to argue, without effect, endlessly, about the same topics. I don't personally see the attraction; it doesn't really add anything to an investing site; and generates a lot of ill-will and divisiveness. Plenty of other places for it.
+1
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Post by anitya on Jul 9, 2021 15:00:43 GMT
I will not be involved in political discussions. IMHO people in this day and age take it too seriously. It is an epidemic all over the world. |
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Post by anitya on Jul 9, 2021 15:16:43 GMT
Agreed. Nothing good will be gained. You seem to be enjoying summer too much to visit us often. We miss your input and humor. Come back soon. |
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Post by johntaylor on Jul 9, 2021 16:38:13 GMT
Although it can be mildly amusing to joust in utter futility about politics, nothing worthwhile emerges.
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Post by Capital on Jul 9, 2021 16:43:24 GMT
I will not be involved in political discussions. IMHO people in this day and age take it too seriously. It is an epidemic all over the world. It was not always like this. I can remember as a kid tagging along with my Grandfather. He and his friends (a group of all political leans) would sometimes sit around and josh with each other about politics. One would say "Well your man (said/did/thinks) about it this way (whatever way that was)" - followed by laughter from all. This would be quickly by a same type of retort with the same laughter from all. The most funny was the guy who after the first retort would say "well if that's so I'll move my chair over this way" After the second retort he would get up and say "Well I guess I need to move my chair back over this waY" Those guys had it right. Politics to them was something to make them laugh and helped them have a good time together. After all was said and done they were all still just good ole friends. |
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Post by cactusjack on Jul 9, 2021 19:57:20 GMT
I remember those days well. Hell, I remember the 40's. It seems that politics became a knife fight shortly after the turn of the century, and we are a lot worse off for it.
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Post by win1177 on Jul 9, 2021 21:51:53 GMT
Agreed. Nothing good will be gained. Agree with all the previous comments, nothing to gain and will serve to increase arguments, cheap shots, and mean spirited comments. Win |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 21:56:58 GMT
One of my close friends, before the elections, went very against a certain party. In every discussion he used to just say how bad that party is etc.
Few weeks back he mentioned, he lost some friends and some relatives are avoiding him. Nothing good can come out of D vs R discussion.
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Post by javajoe on Jul 9, 2021 22:23:45 GMT
I would strongly suggest keeping this forum free from Politics. Any online forum needs a healthy mix of civility, moderation, and engagement (and no spam or trolls) to stay healthy over time.
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Post by roi2020 on Jul 10, 2021 5:27:09 GMT
I'm new here but appreciate the civility on Big Bang!
Political "discussions" can be very polarizing with no appreciable benefits.
There are numerous online sites available for those who wish to discuss politics.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
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Post by Norbert on Jul 10, 2021 6:47:46 GMT
The San Francisco airport is testing a new AI machine for the amusement of passengers in a waiting lounge. It's a clever machine: first it measures the passenger's IQ and then it engages the passenger in an appropriate conversation.
The first passenger tries it; IQ = 100. The machine suggests they discuss investing, travel, or psychology.
A second passenger tries it: IQ = 150. "Wow, that's great!", says the machine. "We could discuss advanced physics or mathematics."
A third passenger uses the machine: IQ = 50. "Well, let's talk football or politics?", says the machine. "Do you like the Democrats or the Republicans best?"
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 10, 2021 14:59:02 GMT
The San Francisco airport is testing a new AI machine for the amusement of passengers in a waiting lounge. It's a clever machine: first it measures the passenger's IQ and then it engages the passenger in an appropriate conversation. The first passenger tries it; IQ = 100. The machine suggests they discuss investing, travel, or psychology. A second passenger tries it: IQ = 150. "Wow, that's great!", says the machine. "We could discuss advanced physics or mathematics." A third passenger uses the machine: IQ = 50. "Well, let's talk football or politics?", says the machine. "Do you like the Democrats or the Republicans best?" A forth passenger uses the machine: IQ = 25. What are your favorite drums and how long do you smoke a brisket, the machine asks...? |
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Post by racqueteer on Jul 11, 2021 12:28:59 GMT
The San Francisco airport is testing a new AI machine for the amusement of passengers in a waiting lounge. It's a clever machine: first it measures the passenger's IQ and then it engages the passenger in an appropriate conversation. The first passenger tries it; IQ = 100. The machine suggests they discuss investing, travel, or psychology. A second passenger tries it: IQ = 150. "Wow, that's great!", says the machine. "We could discuss advanced physics or mathematics." A third passenger uses the machine: IQ = 50. "Well, let's talk football or politics?", says the machine. "Do you like the Democrats or the Republicans best?" A forth passenger uses the machine: IQ = 25. What are your favorite drums and how long do you smoke a brisket, the machine asks...? I guess that's why some of my acquaintances from college in the 60's seemed convinced you could smoke pretty much ANYTHING if you tried hard enough! |
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 11, 2021 14:17:54 GMT
racqueteer, Good one! ...and you are not the first to cross-reference my smoking ingredients.
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Post by Chahta on Jul 11, 2021 16:17:24 GMT
Which end of the brisket do you light to smoke it?
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bf22
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Post by bf22 on Jul 11, 2021 17:03:36 GMT
Which end of the brisket do you light to smoke it? The middle... |
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Post by BearMkt on Jul 16, 2021 1:10:51 GMT
I've made a few big financial moves recently. The political environment is always on my mind when I think about my investments. Higher taxes, eco-political ideology, governmental control over free enterprise, social unrest, etc. etc. are all potential areas of concern for me lately.
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P.S.: chang , not a recommendation but I say this with trepidation that may be open a thread for Politics ("Domestic and International Politics") so other threads can move more smoothly - no need to reply. I don't see any problem with rational discussion of politics as it pertains to investing. Politics and investing routinely intersect. My idea/request is to keep politics off the Off-Topic board, since standalone (off-topic) political discussions don't seem to add value, as shown on M* and AC. And those forums are already available for political harangues.
