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Post by FD1000 on Jul 26, 2021 14:31:21 GMT
The vaccine did get us out of this, how quickly we forget. It is a lot better than in 2020. The easiest measure is the number of deaths. Losing weight is also great but it all started decades ago when our Gov changed the guidelines + big companies started making junk food and even daily food got worse using cheaper ingredients. Americans used to be thinner 50-60 years ago eating basic food they could find in their supermarket.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 14:36:05 GMT
I read new delta variant is overwhelmingly affecting those not vaccinated.
I understand that there is some risk in getting vaccinated with a new vaccine and risk in not getting vaccinated and people have to weigh and chose. I chose to get my 15 year old vaccinated and i was/am still a bit apprehensive about it but now after vaccine he is back to playing basketball with friends after over an year of sitting at home
On China and Virus, I read an article by nobel prize winning biologist and implication was that there is a very good possibility that corona virus mutation was created in a lab (wuhan). but that is a separate issue from the fact that we now have to live with this virus.
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 26, 2021 14:39:21 GMT
Agree with richardsok. I also think folks who are not vaccinated for no good reason are a problem. However, in the enthusiasm for all manor of resources to keep the virus away externally, not nearly enough attention has been paid to what one can do internally to keep natural resistance as high as possible. It's a simple solution, not so simple to put into practice.
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Post by uncleharley on Jul 26, 2021 14:44:14 GMT
Not everyone can change their lifestyle, but many can.
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Post by roi2020 on Jul 27, 2021 5:07:39 GMT
Mandatory vaccinations were ordered today by a federal agency, California, and New York City. The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs stipulated that 115K health care workers get vaccinated in the next two months. California state employees and health care workers will need to provide proof of vaccination or else take weekly tests. New York City municipal workers must get vaccinated by mid-September or take weekly tests. When the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines receive full FDA approval (as expected), it may become a catalyst for private employers to implement vaccine mandates.
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Post by Norbert on Jul 27, 2021 5:23:23 GMT
It's probably a step too far to legally require vaccinations.
However, it's reasonable to insist on proof of vaccination to come to work, enter stores or restaurants, or use public transport. Not doing so means the unvaccinated person puts others at risk.
I fail to understand the thinking of persons opposed to vaccines. In France these people organize street marches and carry banners demanding "freedom". That's crazy.
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Post by roi2020 on Jul 27, 2021 6:00:22 GMT
I find it difficult to comprehend that a sizable minority of the U.S. population refuses to receive a life-saving vaccine. This is selfish, irresponsible behavior that places others at risk. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has stated that employers can require employees to get a COVID-19 vaccine with some exceptions. Private businesses are within their rights to refuse service to customers who are not vaccinated. Enforcement will be a minefield unless trustworthy “vaccine passports” are developed (Arizona, Texas, and Florida have already prohibited them).
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Post by chang on Jul 27, 2021 6:06:40 GMT
Enforcement will be a minefield unless trustworthy “vaccine passports” are developed The problem I see with this is that anyone stubborn enough to refuse to be vaccinated will probably find a way to obtain a fake passport. "Trustworthy" is the key word here. What if you got your vaccines abroad in another country, that doesn't issue the same passport? I'm not sure how to prevent forgery. Maybe just test people for the antibodies. Wouldn't bother me, frankly, but I'm sure some people would go berserk at that idea.
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Post by anitya on Jul 27, 2021 8:03:21 GMT
Re Govt's power to mandate vaccinations in general, this may be useful - constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-the-supreme-court-rules-on-vaccines-and-public-health But I do not see the current Federal Govt mandating Covid vaccine on the general public. They may mandate it to their employees and leave the rest to the businesses and State and Local Govts to deal with. At Minneapolis Fed, evidently, more than 80% of its employees and their entire senior management are vaccinated. This Fed is requiring the remaining employees, with standard exceptions, to get vaccinated. www.reuters.com/world/us/minneapolis-fed-require-covid-19-vaccinations-staff-2021-07-07/US Universities are requiring staff, faculty and students to be vaccinated for the Fall semester. www.iu.edu/covid/prevention/covid-19-vaccine.htmlOverwhelming %age of rich and moderately rich people are vaccinated. More than 500 of the 613 US athletes participating in Olympics are fully vaccinated. That is more than 80%. Of the unvaccinated, a number of them already had Covid because they train without masks and some are not old enough to be eligible to get vaccinated in time before the Olympic trials and not enough time to be able to take days off from their training regime after the shots. A number of private company CEOs have come on TV and said they are requiring their employees get vaccinated to continue their employment. Some public companies have already asked employees to certify that they are vaccinated (or show proof of vaccination - e.g., I received a vaccination card) before employee's return to office badge is activated. Cheating or lying re vaccination status will be an easy cause for termination. I am expecting FDA to remove emergency use label on the three (or at least on the 2 mRNA) vaccines in 5-6 weeks time. I suspect majority of the unvaccinated are those that do not have a desire to be employed or work for the Federal, State and local Govts or Govt affiliates. I do not know a single person among my family, friends, and acquaintances that is not vaccinated. I no longer want to spend energy on the unvaccinated - the rebels without a cause. It is a temporary nuisance for the rest of us while they consume resources with their antics - but I expect Nature will take care of them sooner or later. But I do agree that this societal phenomenon is troubling from an investment point of view but I will let the 9 figure and up guys to figure out solutions as the impact on their wealth is much higher than any of ours. The fact that we all worked our rears off during our working life and bowed to the broader societal good is a sunk cost.
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Post by racqueteer on Jul 27, 2021 11:38:53 GMT
It's probably a step too far to legally require vaccinations. However, it's reasonable to insist on proof of vaccination to come to work, enter stores or restaurants, or use public transport. Not doing so means the unvaccinated person puts others at risk. I fail to understand the thinking of persons opposed to vaccines. In France these people organize street marches and carry banners demanding "freedom". That's crazy. Agree with all of this. Societies ALWAYS restrict SOME individual preferences for the welfare and stability of 'the community'. If one is prepared to forego the community, wander the wilderness, live in a cave, whatever, then one can do as one wishes. OTHERWISE, some of your 'freedoms' are going to take a backseat to the good of the community as a whole. Deal with it!
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Post by Chahta on Jul 27, 2021 12:18:46 GMT
It's probably a step too far to legally require vaccinations. However, it's reasonable to insist on proof of vaccination to come to work, enter stores or restaurants, or use public transport. Not doing so means the unvaccinated person puts others at risk. I fail to understand the thinking of persons opposed to vaccines. In France these people organize street marches and carry banners demanding "freedom". That's crazy. The answer is politics. They can't stop from weaponizing things like this. "You never let a serious crisis go to waste." So many examples in history.
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Post by fred495 on Jul 28, 2021 17:04:15 GMT
FYI, below is an interesting article on this subject from today's The New York Times. Click on the link at the end of the excerpt to read the complete article: Will the Delta Variant Wreck the Recovery? By Neil Irwin July 28, 2021, 3:00 a.m. ET Probably not. But there are potential challenges with both supply and demand that put the economy at risk. The good economic news, when it comes to the ascendant Delta variant of the coronavirus, is that it puts the economy at risk in only two ways. The bad news: They are supply and demand. So far, the recovery remains robust by most available data. Real-time indicators of business activity show little evidence that Americans are pulling back their economic activity in any meaningful way. But while there is no reason to expect a repeat of the huge disruption of 2020, the new variant puts at risk the kind of rapid recovery that has been underway for months. Just as major parts of the economy were figuring out how to return to full functioning, this may amount to throwing sand in the gears. The emergence of the variant has already caused several wobbly days on Wall Street. And the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, is likely to face questions about the economic implications of Delta in a news conference Wednesday afternoon after a meeting of the Fed’s policy committee. www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/upshot/delta-virus-economy-analysis.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
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Post by fred495 on Jul 28, 2021 17:07:58 GMT
Deleted.
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Post by chapulin on Jul 31, 2021 0:40:48 GMT
I live in King County, Washington state. We are seeing interesting statistics in our mainly vaccinated population. Delta is causing our new positive cases to spike, but our hospitalizations are steady and our deaths haven't increased. This has been going on long enough we should have seen an increase in hospitalizations by now if these are new cases in our unvaccinated population. This looks like we have a higher breakthrough of existing vaccines than Public Health wants to find. Until we implement the new CDC guidelines for mask wearing inside or get boosters (with specific targets for Delta) we will continue to see new cases.
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Post by Norbert on Jul 31, 2021 4:44:49 GMT
I understand that increased breakthrough in persons Pfizer-vaccinated in Israel 5-6 months ago has been observed.
So, perhaps two things are happening?
- vaccine efficacy fades over time, requiring a booster shot;
- the Delta variant is more contagious.
Am still in Greece, wrapping up my little project. Covid-19 is being transmitted on party islands like Ios and Mykonos, where younger people get close in tight spaces.
The rule here is to wear a mask indoors, like in shops. Otherwise not; and everything is open.
Have my EU digital vaccination record now. Still can't visit Isrsel, but plan to visit the US in September and UK in October. Am not yet allowed to enter Australia, which has been slow getting vaccinated.
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Post by paulr888 on Jul 31, 2021 5:13:13 GMT
The vax issue got politicized for obvious reasons and that is the shame of it. Some governments saying there will be no further restrictions on people's rights. I am so sick of it. We mandate seat belts, helmets and forbid drinking while driving to protect people from killing themselves or killing others. Why is this virus any different?
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Post by roi2020 on Jul 31, 2021 5:41:50 GMT
Earlier in July, a COVID-19 outbreak occurred in Provincetown, Mass. Analysis indicated that vaccinated individuals accounted for 74% of the cases. The majority exhibited symptoms which were largely mild although seven people were hospitialized. Thankfully, no one died. COVID-19 vaccines appear to effectively prevent the Delta variant from causing severe illness and death. CDC Director Dr. Walensky stated: “Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit the virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones.”
NPR
Boston Globe
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Post by javajoe on Jul 31, 2021 14:08:53 GMT
Our daughter came back from a summer camp in the midwest and within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke and while unpopular with the prevailing narrative, it does not appear the vaccine does a lot to prevent spread, just severe illness leading to hospitalization and death. I feel that alone is more than enough reason to get vaccinated but I'm not sure the markets on the coasts where Delta is still new have fully priced in the effects of variants and continued spread. The CDC's premature mask reversal a few months back is really going to come back to haunt the administration and public trust I believe.
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 31, 2021 14:40:16 GMT
Our daughter came back from a summer camp in the midwest and within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke and while unpopular with the prevailing narrative, it does not appear the vaccine does a lot to prevent spread, just severe illness leading to hospitalization and death. I feel that alone is more than enough reason to get vaccinated but I'm not sure the markets on the coasts where Delta is still new have fully priced in the effects of variants and continued spread. The CDC's premature mask reversal a few months back is really going to come back to haunt the administration and public trust I believe. Sorry, JJ. I tend to agree with you. I think the euphoria might hit a bump in the road. One possible positive is that vac rates are starting to go up nationally. This is probably something we are going to have to live with and manage best we can... Starting with not going to the hospital, or worse. I've been looking for data on natural immunity protection from the Delta strain but guess it's too new for such data yet. I hope you are all on the other side of the experience.
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Post by Norbert on Jul 31, 2021 14:43:41 GMT
The Delta variant is definitely not a joke. Still, I'm reading that 97%+ of people hospitalized for Covid-19 Delta are unvaccinated. So, the vaccines continue to work. It's likely that new variants will emerge and that gets scary. It's noteworthy that the new case rate is falling rapidly in the UK. I read that a high percentage of the population now has antibodies. Perhaps they really will achieve herd immunity? Good technical article from the American Society for Microbiology: asm.org/Articles/2021/July/How-Dangerous-is-the-Delta-Variant-B-1-617-2N.
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Post by ignatz on Jul 31, 2021 14:57:57 GMT
We mandate seat belts, helmets and forbid drinking while driving to protect people from killing themselves or killing others. Why is this virus any different?
What's different is that regulations for seat belts, helmets, and drunk driving were mandated decades ago---when the credibility of various institutions was considerably higher than it is now. Justifiably or not.
Politicization of each and every issue takes its toll. There are reasons for this politicization, but none of them are flattering. What will change this trajectory when the moral high ground is right there, begging to be occupied? It's a lovely situation.
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Post by Norbert on Jul 31, 2021 15:16:56 GMT
We mandate seat belts, helmets and forbid drinking while driving to protect people from killing themselves or killing others. Why is this virus any different?
What's different is that regulations for seat belts, helmets, and drunk driving were mandated decades ago---when the credibility of various institutions was considerably higher than it is now. Justifiably or not.
Politicization of each and every issue takes its toll. There are reasons for this politicization, but none of them are flattering. What will change this trajectory when the moral high ground is right there, begging to be occupied? It's a lovely situation.
Actually, popular resistance to vaccination dates back to the early 19th century smallpox vaccine. Read here: ftp.historyofvaccines.org/multilanguage/content/articles/history-anti-vaccination-movementsSo, it's nothing new. It's not a new phenomenon related to 21st century social & political polarization. Unlike seatbelt and helmet laws, vaccines deal with a thing you can't see; and involve injecting a mysterious substance into our bodies. N.
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Post by javajoe on Jul 31, 2021 15:39:09 GMT
This is truly not meant to be a political post, but I'm hoping future college students in a variety of disciplines (public health, public policy, PR, communications, social psychology etc) deeply study how poor the CDC and both administrations have handled this crisis. When you think back to "14 days to flatten the curve", no masks vs masks, "get vaccinated and you won't get COVID etc" and even just the simple "....how to communicate in a way that garners public trust and confidence...." I think there will be many lessons to learn that I'm hopeful our future young leaders can learn from so they don't get repeated in future generations.
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Post by uncleharley on Jul 31, 2021 15:41:47 GMT
This is truly not meant to be a political post, but I'm hoping future college students in a variety of disciplines (public health, public policy, PR, communications, social psychology etc) deeply study how poor the CDC and both administrations have handled this crisis. When you think back to "14 days to flatten the curve", no masks vs masks, "get vaccinated and you won't get COVID etc" and even just the simple "....how to communicate in a way that garners public trust and confidence...." I think there will be many lessons to learn that I'm hopeful our future young leaders can learn from so they don't get repeated in future generations. Good Luck with that. I mean that in a positive way, but......
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Post by richardsok on Jul 31, 2021 18:59:22 GMT
Our daughter came back from a summer camp in the midwest and within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke and while unpopular with the prevailing narrative, it does not appear the vaccine does a lot to prevent spread, just severe illness leading to hospitalization and death. I feel that alone is more than enough reason to get vaccinated but I'm not sure the markets on the coasts where Delta is still new have fully priced in the effects of variants and continued spread. The CDC's premature mask reversal a few months back is really going to come back to haunt the administration and public trust I believe. Sorry, JJ. I tend to agree with you. I think the euphoria might hit a bump in the road. One possible positive is that vac rates are starting to go up nationally. This is probably something we are going to have to live with and manage best we can... Starting with not going to the hospital, or worse. I've been looking for data on natural immunity protection from the Delta strain but guess it's too new for such data yet. I hope you are all on the other side of the experience. "......within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke."
That's really shocking, Joe. Can you tell us what vax you had ...... Moderna, Phizer, JNJ?
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Post by anitya on Jul 31, 2021 19:29:17 GMT
Our daughter came back from a summer camp in the midwest and within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke and while unpopular with the prevailing narrative, it does not appear the vaccine does a lot to prevent spread, just severe illness leading to hospitalization and death. I feel that alone is more than enough reason to get vaccinated but I'm not sure the markets on the coasts where Delta is still new have fully priced in the effects of variants and continued spread. The CDC's premature mask reversal a few months back is really going to come back to haunt the administration and public trust I believe. Sorry to hear that. I hope your entire family recovers with no lasting impact on your wellbeing. Thanks for sharing. Being the CDC in the US in the current social environment is possibly the most thankless job in the world. For example, a member in another forum was mocking others repeatedly for suggesting to continue to wear a mask a few weeks ago. In this forum the same person (not a member) was mentioned a couple of times as someone to seek insights from (happens to be on investment matters). You probably can find countless other examples of people with set / inflexible (or even self destructive) ideas who may otherwise come across as highly functional. It is very difficult to govern a large, incohesive society in a vast land during a pandemic that spreads like a wildfire. We will come out of this a different country - hopefully, for the good. Until then "conserve" is my motto. I was not planning to post on Covid after my last post on it. Hopefully, this is the last. P.S.: I had one Covid death and a few positive tests in my extended family.
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Post by javajoe on Jul 31, 2021 20:30:53 GMT
Sorry, JJ. I tend to agree with you. I think the euphoria might hit a bump in the road. One possible positive is that vac rates are starting to go up nationally. This is probably something we are going to have to live with and manage best we can... Starting with not going to the hospital, or worse. I've been looking for data on natural immunity protection from the Delta strain but guess it's too new for such data yet. I hope you are all on the other side of the experience. "......within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke."
That's really shocking, Joe. Can you tell us what vax you had ...... Moderna, Phizer, JNJ?
We all had the Pfizer vaccine back in April/May timeframe. I should note that there were around 10 middle schoolers on the trip to SW Missouri (early hot spot of Delta variant), and all three counselors, 5 of the kids, and 4 entire families most/all fully vaccinated all were positive within a few days of coming back from the camp.
I'm obviously not an epidemiologist but am starting to wonder if the only way we'll get to herd immunity as a society is once most people have actually contracted some version of it. Obviously the adminsitration wants to downplay the occcurances of fully vaccinated Delta variant cases ("breakthrough cases") but we are starting to see/hear it all over our personal network now. It will be interseting to see how that impacts local schooling policy as well. Grace to all school administrators!!
Thanks for the concerns everyone as well. My wife still has brain fog, we both get more tired in the evenings, and she still has zero sense of smell (again she was fully vaccinated) but overall we are doing fine.
-JavaJoe
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Post by rhythmmethod on Jul 31, 2021 20:53:51 GMT
Thanks for the concerns everyone as well. My wife still has brain fog, we both get more tired in the evenings, and she still has zero sense of smell (again she was fully vaccinated) but overall we are doing fine.
-JavaJoe
Darn, JJ. I had COVID back in late January-February. Also dealt with brain fog that I think is mostly gone. Though birthdays, etc make it harder to tell. I also lost my sense of smell which was concerning as it's neurological. Being a pro-active type, I researched and discovered people having success with getting essential oils and remembering how they smelt before opening one and putting it under one's nose. I would then take 4-5 of them, mix the containers up and open one with my eyes closed, smell and guess/remember what the scent was. Interesting to me is that I started to show improvement rather quickly. I'd start with very different ones; lavender, peppermint, lemon and add more subtle ones as I improved. I think it helped but it may have been the passage of time. However I had a watermark to judge my improvement. Continue to improve and be well.
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Post by Chahta on Jul 31, 2021 23:40:35 GMT
"......within 36 hours all five of us in the house (all fully vaccinated including her) were all Positive with fevers and symptoms for a week. This new Delta variant is no joke."
That's really shocking, Joe. Can you tell us what vax you had ...... Moderna, Phizer, JNJ?
We all had the Pfizer vaccine back in April/May timeframe. I should note that there were around 10 middle schoolers on the trip to SW Missouri (early hot spot of Delta variant), and all three counselors, 5 of the kids, and 4 entire families most/all fully vaccinated all were positive within a few days of coming back from the camp.
I'm obviously not an epidemiologist but am starting to wonder if the only way we'll get to herd immunity as a society is once most people have actually contracted some version of it. Obviously the adminsitration wants to downplay the occcurances of fully vaccinated Delta variant cases ("breakthrough cases") but we are starting to see/hear it all over our personal network now. It will be interseting to see how that impacts local schooling policy as well. Grace to all school administrators!!
Thanks for the concerns everyone as well. My wife still has brain fog, we both get more tired in the evenings, and she still has zero sense of smell (again she was fully vaccinated) but overall we are doing fine.
-JavaJoe
I had the Pfizer shots. I have yet to hear how long they last and about a signup for a booster or whatever. It’s coming up on 6 months soon. Someone is screwing up.
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Post by fishingrod on Jul 31, 2021 23:47:27 GMT
Don't kill the messenger.
I am due a booster also.
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