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Post by chang on Aug 20, 2023 7:05:09 GMT
At least three quarters of coffee shops and restaurants in London do not accept cash. Credit cards or bank cards only. They're "cashless". And some quasi fast food restaurants (like my favorite sushi chain, Itsu) have only one guy working behind a counter, alongside a bank of self-serve stations where you place your order on a touch screen and pay with a card.
So I have to rack up bank or credit card charges for as little as a couple of bucks when I want to buy a cup of coffee. It doesn't matter except that I try to check my credit card statements every month for possible mistakes. Now those statements will be pages and pages long.
I just happen to like using money. It looks like money is on its way out.
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Post by Capital on Aug 20, 2023 11:20:03 GMT
chang , we are seeing more and more "cashless" businesses here in the states. It seemed to have started during Covid when no one wanted to touch anything someone else had touched. Most businesses transitioned to card readers that the customer swiped and have stayed with that technology. I even go to some restaurants that only have online menus. Heck when I vote I have to use a one-time use straw so as not to touch the screen with my fingers.
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Post by chang on Aug 20, 2023 15:26:18 GMT
I will not eat at a restaurant where the menu is on a QR code that you have to open on your phone. Sorry I’m just not doing that. I expect to relax and NOT use my phone at a restaurant. I like a solicitous, attentive waiter with a dash of humor and personality.
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Post by django on Aug 20, 2023 15:48:52 GMT
I've been cashless for years, but that's mostly because of cash back credit cards.
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Post by Chahta on Aug 20, 2023 15:58:40 GMT
I will not eat at a restaurant where the menu is on a QR code that you have to open on your phone. Sorry I’m just not doing that. I expect to relax and NOT use my phone at a restaurant. I like a solicitous, attentive waiter with a dash of humor and personality. The other day I paid a tab at a restaurant with cash. I paid $60 for a $41.30 bill. The ‘waiter’ asked if I wanted change. What? He didn’t even bother to see how much I put down. I said of course I do. He came back and gave me change rounded down to the nearest dollar, leaving me $0.70 short. I said “come here son” and explained how that was poor customer service. He said he doesn’t carry change in his pockets. At least round the change up to the customers favor, that is if you are looking for a good tip. Something else that irritates me is those stupid hand-held computers they use for paying your bill at the table. And give me my dang receipt. Many waiters do not give you a copy unless you ask then act dumb because the trend is to not take receipts anymore. It’s tough being old in a new world. 😀
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Post by steadyeddy on Aug 20, 2023 16:14:11 GMT
I will not eat at a restaurant where the menu is on a QR code that you have to open on your phone. Sorry I’m just not doing that. I expect to relax and NOT use my phone at a restaurant. I like a solicitous, attentive waiter with a dash of humor and personality. I think COVID ushered in the QR code way of ordering and paying for services. I thoroughly used it during COVID, but agree that now in a post-COVID era having real people take orders makes more sense.
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Post by archer on Aug 20, 2023 17:54:01 GMT
I don't like dealing with change (coins), so I do find the times I use cash to come with that downside.
I agree with Chang, on wanting to keep card transactions to a manageable level. One way I do this is for example when I buy a cup of coffee, I usually go to Peet's where I have an app that I replenish $25 at a time.
Since Covid I've become pretty much an non-consumer. I have ongoing expenses for insurance, HOA dues, utilities, etc. I pretty much eliminated discretionary or recreational spending, and have just gotten used to it.
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Post by Mustang on Aug 20, 2023 19:23:29 GMT
Apps on phones. When I go through a drive through at McDonald's they want to know if I ordered using an app. My answer is no. Can you imagine how many apps would be on my phone if I was required to have one for each restaurant, each hardware store, each auto parts store, etc. And then there are the stores where you might stop once in a lifetime while on vacation. Are we suppose to download their app so we can buy something?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 20:12:38 GMT
I hope this is kind of related... I always used to use cash for gratuities because I thought the actual waitperson was more likely to get it. Does anyone know how gratuities generally work? Do they pool the money or does the individual get it even if posted on the credit card?
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Post by bizman on Aug 20, 2023 22:21:54 GMT
I also hate the move by the supposedly enlightened to end the use of cash. They may get there one day, but I will fight it every step of the way. Whatever happened to the customer is always right?
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Post by gman57 on Aug 20, 2023 23:33:26 GMT
How about getting rid of the penny? Do we really need the penny? Most people just take them home and throw them in a jar.
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Post by gman57 on Aug 20, 2023 23:38:13 GMT
I hope this is kind of related... I always used to use cash for gratuities because I thought the actual waitperson was more likely to get it. Does anyone know how gratuities generally work? Do they pool the money or does the individual get it even if posted on the credit card? If the service is really good and you want your server to get it leave cash, they can pocket that. I think credit card tips are divided among the staff but I'm not sure.
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Post by retiredat48 on Aug 20, 2023 23:38:57 GMT
Ahhhh, cash...
--Like waiting in line when the lady guy in front of me goes through their purse looking for the exact change! ...to the penny!
--Like, I lived for awhile in Palm Beach FL area, known for its super-wealthy. A lady dressed to the nines, gets out of her chauffeur-driven black Bentley (there is no other sophisticated color in FL than black), goes into Publix supermarket for food. She is ahead of me in the checkout line, while the chauffeur waits ahead to take her groceries. Next, she fumbles through her purse and comes up with FOOD STAMPS...cutting them out to give to the teller, and the exact cash amount. A couple minutes of amusement on my part.
--Like, waiting in a long line at a bank in Miami, where many people are getting "cash" for the holiday weekend, when a guy taps me on the shoulder and says "Sir, the English-speaking line is over there." I moved to the much shorter line!
R48
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Post by steelpony10 on Aug 21, 2023 0:18:45 GMT
This outlook will help with all ones rants and even investing. einzelganger.co/wu-wei-the-art-of-letting-things-happen/ I love cash. Works great for the small pleasures in everyday life. It still works great for small town living, really small towns. Anything greater then $50 I use the card. I think some of the reasons cash is being fazed out is employee theft and the inconvenience of getting it into your working capital account i.e. dealing with banks is a drag.
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Post by bizman on Aug 21, 2023 4:42:28 GMT
Obviously I don't pay cash for everything. And I don't bring a wheelbarrowful of pennies to pay for things and gum up the works for others. No food stamps either.
But it seems like an inversion of common sense to enthusiastically stamp out the freedom of choice of a law abiding citizen to pay for a meal at a restaurant with some 20's, while the enlightened leaders of our big cities effectively decriminalize shoplifting and taking hard drugs in public.
Though private businesses have the right to do as they wish. And I have the right to take my business elsewhere.
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Post by Mustang on Aug 21, 2023 14:56:24 GMT
This outlook will help with all ones rants and even investing. einzelganger.co/wu-wei-the-art-of-letting-things-happen/ I love cash. Works great for the small pleasures in everyday life. It still works great for small town living, really small towns. Anything greater then $50 I use the card. I think some of the reasons cash is being fazed out is employee theft and the inconvenience of getting it into your working capital account i.e. dealing with banks is a drag. "Once upon a time, a novice farmer indulged himself in motivational videos. He became familiar with ideas like the importance of ‘effort,’ the ‘hustle culture,’ and ‘work hard, play hard.’ After binge-watching for days, he walked onto his farm, fired up, and determined to make it a great success. "He started pulling one of the crops as a way to make them grow faster. But this didn’t work. Then he began to water the plants twice as much, hoping to make them grow faster, but he drowned them instead. After trying to force his success, the farmer realized that no matter how much effort he puts in, acting in opposition to nature is counterproductive. Despite humanity’s technological developments and will to progress, we’re still utterly dependent on nature. Human effort has its limitations and is always in conjunction with nature. We cannot grow a plant, for example, completely isolated from natural growth, even though we can influence and manipulate it."
While those paragraphs are true I couldn't read it any further. This feel nice philosophy not only makes foolish statements but it leaves out things. If the farmer doesn't make the effort to clear the land and plant the seeds he will not get any crops. I grew up in farm country - a small town of 600. 90% of the kids I went to school with (K through 12) were the children of farmers. Here is a tale of two farmers that I personally knew. One of my friend's father was up early every single day feeding the cattle, plowing the fields, repairing equipment, etc. Most of the farmers work 16 hour days during planting and harvesting seasons. Another friend's father wasn't so industrious. His crops were often in late. The shorter growing season resulted in a smaller harvests. Guess which on has grandchildren now working the land and which one went bankrupt.
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Post by johntaylor on Aug 21, 2023 16:57:46 GMT
Abolishing cash could have privacy implications, and affect freedom of contract (Article 1, Section 10)
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Post by archer on Aug 21, 2023 17:19:15 GMT
Abolishing cash as an act of law is one thing, and of course would have it's opposition.
The business trend of moving away from cash is within the freedom businesses currently have and could possibly become widespread enough to render cash useless, unless at some point Gov stepped in and put a stop to it.
Personally I have never had an issue using cash anywhere, except at self serve check outs, but I am a minimal consumer.
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Post by steelpony10 on Aug 21, 2023 18:27:08 GMT
Mustang , Human effort has it’s limitations. Change and things not going your way shouldn’t be dwelled on. That’s how I see it. Because I believe I can’t control squat and have no interest in running in circles over continuous disappointment I look the other way every day. Cultures evolve mostly for the better in my opinion and I try to adapt to the changes. Of course this is the easy solution which seems to be my preferred path. I think the work ethic you describe may be a thing of the past. Many young-ins may prefer more joy in their lives and less things. Doing what you have to do to survive is another situation.
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Post by richardsok on Aug 21, 2023 20:00:54 GMT
Mustang , Human effort has it’s limitations. Change and things not going your way shouldn’t be dwelled on. That’s how I see it. Because I believe I can’t control squat and have no interest in running in circles over continuous disappointment I look the other way every day. Cultures evolve mostly for the better in my opinion and I try to adapt to the changes. Of course this is the easy solution which seems to be my preferred path. I think the work ethic you describe may be a thing of the past. Many young-ins may prefer more joy in their lives and less things. Doing what you have to do to survive is another situation. " Cultures evolve mostly for the better..." Oh, Lord. Where does one start?
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Post by steelpony10 on Aug 21, 2023 21:18:04 GMT
richardsok , Ha. Ha. All old people sound the same. Everything fell apart when women got the vote. That damn socialism, oops social security. Use of cash is disappearing, no more late night trips to bank drop boxes on Friday. Nobody wants to slave at a machine or desk all day, they want a better quality life maybe instead of things and better things etc.
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Post by bizman on Aug 21, 2023 22:50:05 GMT
I have a few thoughts around what we are talking about here, maybe off topic, maybe not. Businesses have the right to do whatever they want, within the laws. They can incentivize or disincentivize people to feel comfortable and enjoy interacting with the business through the rules they enforce and the hoops they make customers jump through. But some of this seems like the opposite of good marketing. Coca Cola has made a religion and a great business from marketing with happy associations with the brand and reducing customer frictions and making their products almost universally available.
Businesses can make opposite choices, but I think they should be aware they are doing it. Some of it is conscious and some subconscious, but if a business makes it more difficult or unpleasant to deal with them, I'll likely do less business with them. It's just that idea of "top of mind awareness." When you think of a business, do you have a happy/pleasant thought, or do you think to yourself, those a-holes?
Another reason the wave of companies taking sides in the culture wars is a mistake. It's negative advertising, building up bad will among a fairly large percentage of your potential customers. Now, a business has a right to make bad decisions, or decisions that cost them money. But smart people will recognize there are real long term costs to making your customers dislike you.
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Post by nibble on Aug 21, 2023 23:45:31 GMT
We eliminated pennies in Canada ten years ago. We round up, or round down.
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Post by archer on Aug 21, 2023 23:52:49 GMT
We eliminated pennies in Canada ten years ago. We round up, or round down. Did eliminating pennies have any effect on the price of copper? I can imagine a lot of copper is tied up in pennies, and reclaiming them would increase the supply for other copper products.
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Post by Mustang on Aug 22, 2023 14:06:18 GMT
We eliminated pennies in Canada ten years ago. We round up, or round down. How could we pay sales taxes if we eliminated pennies?
There are a couple of places (like McDonald's) that asks us if we want to round to the nearest dollar. The difference goes to charity. The change isn't much per transaction but a thousand transaction per day adds up over a month's time. Cash is still accepted everywhere but the crime wave destroying our cities have not yet reached us.
Off topic: I wish I have bought a McDonald's franchise years ago. That is without a doubt on of the busiest fast food restaurants anywhere around. From 10:00 until 2:00 the drive through has cars lined up completely around the building. The workers inside are proof that our younger generations are not lazy because they are working at a frantic pace to keep the line flowing. I do not know what their profit margin per order is but they sell a lot of orders.
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Post by yakers on Aug 22, 2023 17:10:37 GMT
In Norway right now, everything is digital; only place that took cash was a church service
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Post by gman57 on Aug 22, 2023 17:41:12 GMT
Cashless is just a matter of time IMHO. They'll need to wait for the old folks to die off that don't understand the digital world. Cash now is like lp's or cd's in the music world, everyone thought they wouldn't go away. I don't know the percentage but I think the majority of music is now digital streaming.
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Post by waffle2 on Aug 22, 2023 18:05:55 GMT
My whole family is cashless. I only keep some cash for emergencies.
I was in Europe for 10 days recently. Did not need any euros. Though I had some euros with me just in case and for tips. All on credit cards.
I prefer cashless.
One public restroom I had to pay 1 euros cash to use.
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Post by bizman on Aug 22, 2023 18:27:30 GMT
The main problem I see with a forced cashless society, where cash isn't even an option anymore, is that the next time we find ourselves in an economic situation like the early 2010's, there will be nothing stopping the Feds from "taxing" digital savings by making it shrink in an attempt to force people to spend today. This is one of Ken Rogoff's big hobbyhorses. For that reason alone, those eager to get rid of the option of paper currency may have a few future regrets.
I admit I'm a dinosaur. Sometimes I wonder if my biggest anachronism is that I insist on paying my own freight in the world. If cash is an evil, then I guess all the legalized shoplifters in the cities are virtuous because no physical cash changes hands. A brave new world, indeed.
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Post by archer on Aug 22, 2023 18:54:59 GMT
Re: legalized shoplifting, I see a growing opportunity for Mafia type business protection. This will not be a solution, since the protection will eventually be from themselves, but, it might come to a dependable and manageable level.
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