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Post by chang on Feb 12, 2021 6:09:04 GMT
I sold my MC index fund, and will re-buy if we get a correction of some sort (hah). However, I plan to buy an "Extended Market" fund as a better fit to an otherwise LC portfolio. There are really only three choices: Vanguard's VEXAX/VXF, and Fidelity's FSMAX and FZIPX. The latter (FZIPX) is one of Fidelity's ZERO SM funds. The differences can be seen in the linked pages. FSMAX is so cheap (0.036%) that I consider the difference in ER negligible. Indeed, the ZERO funds look like a marketing gimmick, and I am wondering whether or not they might actually be less desirable in terms of the way the portfolio/index is maintained/tracked. FSMAX tracks the Dow Jones U.S. Completion Total Stock Market Index, while FZIPX tracks the "Fidelity U.S. Extended Investable Market Index" which is Fido's in-house index. Using Fido's "compare charts" function, I looked at FSMAX and FZIPX together for the last 1Y, and indeed FSMAX pulled way ahead ($14,537 vs. $13,039 from a $10,000 start). That's a pretty big difference for two index funds that should be nearly identical. Does anybody have experience with Fido's ZERO funds? And/or FZIPX in particular? Based on the 1Y charts, I would be inclined to buy FSMAX, unless there's more to this story. TIA. (PS/Edit: If you compare the Fido pages for FSMAX and FZIPX, it will show FSMAX as SC/MC growth and FZIPX as SC/MC blend. However if you look at the M* blob-and-centroid, you will see that the portfolios are nearly identical; FSMAX's centroid just barely lands in the MCG box, while FZIPX's centroid just barely lands in the MCB box.)
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Post by yogibearbull on Feb 12, 2021 13:33:58 GMT
Fido clearly indicates that it makes money on Zero-funds via securities lending.
Practices vary with securities lending. Vanguard returns all of that money net of expenses to its funds. BlackRock, Fido etc normally share - return to funds some, keep the rest. For Zero-funds, Fido pockets it all.
Another way to save is to internalize indexing but that is controversial and Fido hasn't done that yet.
So, Fido Zero-funds are really PR gimmicks.
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Post by Capital on Feb 13, 2021 13:07:14 GMT
Fido clearly indicates that it makes money on Zero-funds via securities lending. Practices vary with securities lending. Vanguard returns all of that money net of expenses to its funds. BlackRock, Fido etc normally share - return to funds some, keep the rest. For Zero-funds, Fido pockets it all. Another way to save is to internalize indexing but that is controversial and Fido hasn't done that yet. So, Fido Zero-funds are really PR gimmicks. yogibearbull thanks for that information. I recently (January) opened UTMA and Roth IRAs for my children and put them in FZROX. Being teenagers they have 50+ year time horizons. They have not been in the market or this fund long enough to have any history with it. They are up; however, it has been hard to be wrong in the time that they have been invested. The amounts are small; however, I may broaden my approach as the balances grow.
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Post by steadyeddy on Feb 17, 2021 18:33:44 GMT
Fido clearly indicates that it makes money on Zero-funds via securities lending. Practices vary with securities lending. Vanguard returns all of that money net of expenses to its funds. BlackRock, Fido etc normally share - return to funds some, keep the rest. For Zero-funds, Fido pockets it all. Another way to save is to internalize indexing but that is controversial and Fido hasn't done that yet. So, Fido Zero-funds are really PR gimmicks. YBB - Couldn't Fido do securities lending regardless of which index they use? Why should this be a particular item for zero-funds?
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Post by yogibearbull on Feb 17, 2021 19:26:39 GMT
Fido clearly indicates that it makes money on Zero-funds via securities lending. Practices vary with securities lending. Vanguard returns all of that money net of expenses to its funds. BlackRock, Fido etc normally share - return to funds some, keep the rest. For Zero-funds, Fido pockets it all. Another way to save is to internalize indexing but that is controversial and Fido hasn't done that yet. So, Fido Zero-funds are really PR gimmicks. YBB - Couldn't Fido do securities lending regardless of which index they use? Why should this be a particular item for zero-funds? Yes, Fido can and does securities lending for other funds. Issue is how much is returned to funds? For Zero-funds, none is returned while it is partially returned for other funds.
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Post by steadyeddy on Feb 17, 2021 19:49:08 GMT
YBB - Couldn't Fido do securities lending regardless of which index they use? Why should this be a particular item for zero-funds? Yes, Fido can and does securities lending for other funds. Issue is how much is returned to funds? For Zero-funds, none is returned while it is partially returned for other funds. Ok, thanks YBB.
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Post by jongaltiii on Aug 5, 2021 15:09:54 GMT
Re: FSMAX (Fidelity Enhanced Index Fund) I could be wrong but I had it as a Mid Cap Blend and it was M* 5* on my watch list in June. It's now 2 Star and Fido has it as Mid Cap Growth... as you mentioned chang Was it categorized differently recently? Is that why it's dropped to a 2*?
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Post by yogibearbull on Aug 5, 2021 15:24:47 GMT
Re: FSMAX (Fidelity Enhanced Index Fund) I could be wrong but I had it as a Mid Cap Blend and it was M* 5* on my watch list in June. It's now 2 Star and Fido has it as Mid Cap Growth... as you mentioned chang Was it categorized differently recently? Is that why it's dropped to a 2*? It is Fido Extended Market Index that is a completion-index. In M* style box, it is at the borderline of blend and growth, so may go back-and-forth. big-bang-investors.proboards.com/post/6430/thread
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Post by roi2020 on Aug 6, 2021 7:33:12 GMT
I agree that the Fidelity Zero funds are marketing gimmicks. While index mutual fund expenses are very important, there are other considerations: Index construction/methodology Index tracking accuracy Securities lending policy
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Post by yogibearbull on Aug 6, 2021 12:24:06 GMT
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Post by Capital on Aug 6, 2021 12:43:22 GMT
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