|
Post by chang on Feb 8, 2023 14:03:40 GMT
Up through last year, my former employer paid Ernst & Young to prepare my taxes. That benefit has unfortunately now expired. E&Y offered to continue to prepare my returns on a private-pay basis, and quoted me as follows: Based on your prior year tax return, the approximate fee for your current year US tax return services would be $2,150 which consists of:
- Federal tax return: $1600
- FinCEN Form1114(FBAR): $550
This strikes me as somewhat outrageous. I am going to ask my family accountant for a quote, although I'm not sure how much experience he has with citizens residing overseas. What would be a reasonable tax prep fee, considering that my return is somewhat more complex than average? TIA.
|
|
|
Post by gman57 on Feb 8, 2023 17:14:48 GMT
A woman I know mentioned they are going to wind up paying about 1k this year. Theirs is little complicated as they have an LLC, are filing jointly for the first time and I think her husband still has some divorce finances to take care of from a year or so ago. I have no idea what the going rates are though.
|
|
|
Post by fritzo489 on Feb 8, 2023 18:03:12 GMT
Good morning : I paid $150 last year & the same price is offered this year. 2 brokerage accounts, one mutual fund. RMD's 1099 , bank interest, CG's, & Dividends. I'm guessing 15 to 20 buy-sells per year. Hope this info helps, fritzo489
|
|
|
Post by javajoe on Feb 8, 2023 19:31:22 GMT
I pay around $700-800 to have a CPA do our married filing jointly (midwestern major city rates). Low frills firm with two CPA's and some part time admin support, so fairly low overhead. We have multiple LLC's, a few K1's, W2, a dozen or so financial accounts plus all the normal itemized deductions for business and personal, income in multiple states, and of course quarterly estimates/forecasting throughout the year. We use a donor advised fund for all our charitable, so no need to track all those receipts. I'm well-organized so I'm sure the rate would be higher if they needed to track a bunch of things down iteratively.
-JavaJoe
|
|
|
Post by steelpony10 on Feb 8, 2023 19:34:03 GMT
chang , 1. My experience is charges for tax preparation are based on the line entries which seems fair. Your fees may very well be reasonable or even higher now for the Fed and any additional state or city filings. All of which might require you to file. More complicated = more lines = more cost. 2. If you have further requirements that are out of scope for a standard tax professional, meaning they aren’t certified to do your whole filing, maybe the professional that is certified (took the necessary yearly IRS tests) would charge more. 3. Individual requirements vary so no real comparisons of coat are possible.
|
|
|
Post by marpro on Feb 8, 2023 23:01:31 GMT
“More complicated = more lines = more cost. “
Most of the lines can be easily imported and filled directly into Turbo Tax Premier. I thought that I was going to have a tough time last year when I was faced with filing the tax return with refinancing costs of my rental unit. Some costs can be deducted immediately, but some others can only be deducted with amortization over the life of the loan. Guess what happened? TT provided a table of costs that had to be filled. I went through my closing documents, picked up the line items, and entered them in the table. Yes, it took me about half hour to look through the various items and prepare the data in a spreadsheet format so that I can copy and paste. It was only one time job for a 15-year loan. TT did the rest of the jobs, prepared my other forms also, and filled it automatically all in the proper places. Then, it brought the values to the schedule E. I just imported last year return to this year TT, it brought out everything. That is what Technology does. Technology reduces the cost of doing mundane work.
I am just waiting for my 1099-Bs consolidated from three brokerages to import into TT now. It will do the rest of the calculations and prepare my return.
|
|
|
Post by Chahta on Feb 9, 2023 9:10:45 GMT
chang, I agree it’s outrageous. Do you have anymore than your taxable account to pay taxes on? If somehow they are familiar with the size of your portfolio that might have something to do with your quote. They will have the least expensive person enter your info into the software and push the button. Someone higher up will review and sign. Being overseas may have an added cost. I doubt they do more than use your brokerage 1099 for the data entry.
|
|
|
Post by chang on Feb 9, 2023 9:59:10 GMT
Three taxable accounts, plus overseas complications. Also a LTIP payment from former company. We moved and bought a house last year, that might add some complexity. I know for a fact that my company paid them $1000 as part of their contract with E&Y, which is understandable, but they obviously aren’t competing for private customers. Their quote sounds very much like they’re doing ME a favor. I’ve already asked my mom’s CPA if he can fit me it.
|
|
|
Post by bobfl on Feb 10, 2023 20:32:34 GMT
Just for the heck of it, pay about $70 and try to use TurboTax Premier or higher, downloaded from Amazon. Ever since I got ripped off by a CPA I started using it and never changed. I remember when it took me a solid, long week to do taxes. Now it takes less than 30 minutes. I wait for the last week to make sure the brokers get all the filings. TurboTax pulls it all in from the brokers.
Even if you don't end up using it, it will teach you so much.
|
|
|
Post by acksurf on Feb 10, 2023 20:47:06 GMT
Annually, I pay my local CPA about $1000. But I have an S-Corp (self-employed) so there are complications with that. I pay the IRS monthly and have a "salary".
|
|
|
Post by marpro on Feb 10, 2023 22:49:58 GMT
Just for the heck of it, pay about $70 and try to use TurboTax Premier or higher, downloaded from Amazon? Ever since I got ripped off by a CPA I started using it and never changed. I remember when it took me a solid, long week to do taxes. Now it takes less than 30 minutes.I wait for the last week to make sure the brokers get all the filings. TurboTax pulls it all in from the brokers. Even if you don't end up using it, it will teach you so much. I spent more than 30 minutes last year because I had to enter some 1099-R manually, and I had to enter some data from the closing document of the refinancing. I had to upload my last year return into TT premier and enter only 10-12 data points manually in less than 30 minutes this year. I am waiting for 1099-Bs to download directly. I will be done. I understand that TT has included more 1099-Rs this year for uploading. Besides, TT premier can handle income from foreign investments also for expats. Google and find out.
Add/Edit: My cost of TT Premier was only $5+taxes = $5.50 from FIDO. It could depend on your asset size.
|
|
dana
Ensign
Posts: 1
|
Post by dana on Feb 13, 2023 21:06:18 GMT
That are really useful tips for me. Thank you for the question.
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Feb 14, 2023 2:43:16 GMT
If your tax is complicated (if you have mutual funds in foreign brokerages), $2150 does not look outrageous to me. You could ask them do Federal for $1600 and do FBAR yourself. FBAR is simple once you compute maximum account value for each of your foreign account. Those who know how to handle foreign accounts reliably tend to be more expensive. Foreign accounts could also mean much more work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2023 3:01:14 GMT
A lot of times people that use CPAs and accountants say that they find all kinds of ways to save them money and are well worth the cost. My taxes are simple and take almost no time with TT and nearly everything gets imported automatically. But, if I had very complicated tax situations, I would certainly wonder if an accountant might be worthwhile.
No idea what one gets for $2100, or what aggravation can ensue when one makes a serious mistake and ends up getting a letter from the IRS, after the fact.
|
|
|
Post by retiredat48 on Feb 14, 2023 3:52:23 GMT
Tax preparations by accountants or other professionals are simply people who take your input of receipts/statements etc and do your taxes. To achieve meaningful tax savings, one has to be familiar with the rules DURING AND BEFORE the year is completed. So, I do not use any professionals, do taxes myself, and take all the "GRAY" AREA DICISIONS, IN MY FAVOR. Accountants are often reluctant to do this. BTW I also file my taxes BY HAND...yes, handwritten. IRS agents do not want to deal with such folks...they do not audit same. IRS recent stats show hand entered returns are LAST to be reviewed...often 2 or more years lapsed. Many returns not reviewed at all. Of course, I do not get any money back from my returns. My starting goal each year is zero fed taxes. And if I get audited, I play a very hard-of-hearing old timer!! "What did you say?" It takes a week to audit me deskside. Just kidding, as I have never been audited. R48
|
|
|
Post by marpro on Feb 16, 2023 20:28:04 GMT
“I play a very hard-of-hearing old timer!! “What did you say?” Nothing to worry “
LOL. Can you do that?
Once, when I called them to find out about my audit (first ever) after my backdoor ROTH conversion, the agent informed me “somebody poured coffee on it.” Those guys do not even know their own rules and what the code “N” meant? He said, “Nothing to worry.” They kept auditing my returns until my taxable income dropped to way below a part-timer's wages.
|
|
|
Post by bobfl on Feb 16, 2023 21:07:32 GMT
Just got an email from TurboTax saying they will actually do your taxes for you. It read: Want an expert to do your taxes? Act now before prices go up! Work with the same dedicated expert every year, who knows you and your taxes, and is focused on getting you the best outcome.
|
|
|
Post by marpro on Feb 16, 2023 21:11:45 GMT
Just got an email from TurboTax saying they will actually do your taxes for you. It read: Want an expert to do your taxes? Act now before prices go up! Work with the same dedicated expert every year, who knows you and your taxes, and is focused on getting you the best outcome. TaxHawk also has desk CPAs to answer customers questions both via e-mail and also live (more expensive). I did sign up for the "Deluxe" $7 program but dropped it because I got TT premier almost free. FIDO is giving it away. It could depend on your asset basis.
|
|
|
Post by retiredat48 on Feb 16, 2023 22:50:25 GMT
I start each year with a goal of zero in fed taxes; I usually meet it. Trump changes made it a little more difficult. I stop at zero.
If audited I have extra deductions I can dig out of the woodwork.
My one adult kid(college educated professional) with children, however, shoots for money back from gvt (nothing withheld). And because of earned income tax credits, usually gets money from the fed. Grandkids now entering age where cant use the credit. EIC...Biggest gvt giveaway ever.
R48
|
|
|
Post by bobfl on Feb 17, 2023 13:10:44 GMT
I start each year with a goal of zero in fed taxes; I usually meet it. Trump changes made it a little more difficult. I stop at zero. EIC...Biggest gvt giveaway ever. R48 Same here. But I accomplished that with buying "qualified" preferreds and having no itemized deductions to audit. All financial data is pulled from my broker via TurboTax so I don't touch that data. I was happy when the law changed and mandated that the brokers had to get the numbers correct. Before that law change I had to audit all data downloaded from the brokers. Things are different now because I am taxed on SS. Plus in Jan, I sold everything after the inflation threat, so have long term cap gains. I did buy everything back after it crashed, which starts the clock over for long term and short term status if I want to sell and move from credit to stocks, if stocks tumble. The biggest gov money given to me: 1. Covid stimulus check. What the heck! 2. Medicare 3. Far more SS than I ever put in
|
|
|
Post by Chahta on Feb 17, 2023 17:14:05 GMT
I start each year with a goal of zero in fed taxes; I usually meet it. Trump changes made it a little more difficult. I stop at zero. If audited I have extra deductions I can dig out of the woodwork.My one adult kid(college educated professional) with children, however, shoots for money back from gvt (nothing withheld). And because of earned income tax credits, usually gets money from the fed. Grandkids now entering age where cant use the credit. EIC...Biggest gvt giveaway ever. R48 What changes would make it harder to zero out? I would think lower marginal rates would make it easier. How often do you get audited? Why not take full advantage each return?
|
|
|
Post by steelpony10 on Feb 17, 2023 17:28:31 GMT
It’s funny I always go for the highest tax bill possible each year after taking advantage of all legal loopholes* only available for the moneyed classes and despite the inconvenience of tax filing. *Publication 4012. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4012.pdf
|
|
|
Post by retiredat48 on Feb 17, 2023 17:48:45 GMT
I start each year with a goal of zero in fed taxes; I usually meet it. Trump changes made it a little more difficult. I stop at zero. If audited I have extra deductions I can dig out of the woodwork.My one adult kid(college educated professional) with children, however, shoots for money back from gvt (nothing withheld). And because of earned income tax credits, usually gets money from the fed. Grandkids now entering age where cant use the credit. EIC...Biggest gvt giveaway ever. R48 What changes would make it harder to zero out? I would think lower marginal rates would make it easier. R48 reply in bold: SALT...state and local tax deduction (Trump) cap at $10,000. Unlimited SALT is a huge ripoff of all other USA taxpayers...again long story why. I shifted some RE taxes onto a rental property schedule, mitigating some. But salt got me a little. NY, calif and NJ folks have stopped squaking as the liberals have now gotten a workaround to SALT the IRS is apparently allowing. Goes like this. Companies have been started who simply pay taxes to the fed. The company bills you for the tax you owe. If you have a business, you can then deduct the company cost as an expense!How often do you get audited? Why not take full advantage each return? R48...Never have been audited.
|
|
|
Post by retiredat48 on Feb 17, 2023 17:56:26 GMT
It’s funny I always go for the highest tax bill possible each year after taking advantage of all legal loopholes* only available for the moneyed classes and despite the inconvenience of tax filing. *Publication 4012. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4012.pdfWell, I see recently the rich are using what I did through my age sixties, to today. And that is: borrow to live on rather than take from IRAs. During my age 60's I used HELOCs to live on (rather than taking from IRA), doing conversions to ROTHs each year. I now have a pretty large ROTH built up. Many rich now don't take any income. They use assets to borrow, and spend the money. Hmmm. Sounds familiar. R48
|
|
|
Post by Chahta on Feb 17, 2023 18:10:07 GMT
It’s funny I always go for the highest tax bill possible each year after taking advantage of all legal loopholes* only available for the moneyed classes and despite the inconvenience of tax filing. *Publication 4012. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4012.pdfThat is good. Someone has to feed the junkies their dope.
|
|
|
Post by Chahta on Feb 17, 2023 18:16:50 GMT
It’s funny I always go for the highest tax bill possible each year after taking advantage of all legal loopholes* only available for the moneyed classes and despite the inconvenience of tax filing. *Publication 4012. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4012.pdfWell, I see recently the rich are using what I did through my age sixties, to today. And that is: borrow to live on rather than take from IRAs. During my age 60's I used HELOCs to live on (rather than taking from IRA), doing conversions to ROTHs each year. I now have a pretty large ROTH built up. Many rich now don't take any income. They use assets to borrow, and spend the money. Hmmm. Sounds familiar. R48 So they pay interest and taxes for money to live on. You mean they do take from TIRAs and deposit into taxable accounts or do Roth conversions. What possible motive other than to will larger IRAs to heirs. It actually sounds like the government; borrow to pay yesterdays bills.
|
|
|
Post by retiredat48 on Feb 17, 2023 18:27:34 GMT
Well, I see recently the rich are using what I did through my age sixties, to today. And that is: borrow to live on rather than take from IRAs. During my age 60's I used HELOCs to live on (rather than taking from IRA), doing conversions to ROTHs each year. I now have a pretty large ROTH built up. Many rich now don't take any income. They use assets to borrow, and spend the money. Hmmm. Sounds familiar. R48 So they pay interest and taxes for money to live on. You mean they do take from TIRAs and deposit into taxable accounts or do Roth conversions. What possible motive other than to will larger IRAs to heirs. It actually sounds like the government; borrow to pay yesterdays bills. No they don't touch their IRAs. If you are wealthy, you simply borrow against loanable assets, such as houses or businesses...or margin stocks. Like, I converted a couple years ago one large HELOC to a 3% fixed rate for 17 years duration. I will likely never close this or pay off early. Heck, I now get 4+% on a simple money market fund. IMO those who double paid, or otherwise paid off their mortgages early made a huge financial mistake. Of course some need this to better sleep at night. That comes first. Others watch their homes go way up in price combating inflation, and are somewhat assured their homes (I have three) are a decent hedge against said inflation. A decent storage of value. R48
|
|
|
Post by steelpony10 on Feb 17, 2023 18:49:05 GMT
Chahta , Do what is legally allowed and make as much as you can within your plan, risk limits and personal knowledge. We’re lucky we have some choices. I have no control over the circus or the clown act. I just have a ring side seat. If you have knowledge that dope is involved contact your rep and tell him he needs to do the peoples work and start another multi year investigation that leads nowhere.
|
|
|
Post by steelpony10 on Feb 17, 2023 18:55:26 GMT
It’s funny I always go for the highest tax bill possible each year after taking advantage of all legal loopholes* only available for the moneyed classes and despite the inconvenience of tax filing. *Publication 4012. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4012.pdfWell, I see recently the rich are using what I did through my age sixties, to today. And that is: borrow to live on rather than take from IRAs. During my age 60's I used HELOCs to live on (rather than taking from IRA), doing conversions to ROTHs each year. I now have a pretty large ROTH built up. Many rich now don't take any income. They use assets to borrow, and spend the money. Hmmm. Sounds familiar. R48 That’s what I would be talking about, it’s all in that publication. My chief concern is the puzzle I might leave my wife and kids to unravel. I should have it completely unraveled next year, maybe sorta. 🙏🏼🤞🏼
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 19:07:09 GMT
... IMO those who double paid, or otherwise paid off their mortgages early made a huge financial mistake. Of course some need this to better sleep at night. That comes first. Others watch their homes go way up in price combating inflation, and are somewhat assured their homes (I have three) are a decent hedge against said inflation. A decent storage of value. R48 IMO, it depends on the timeframe and what rates are doing, as well as risk investments. I had CDs mature at appx $100K in late 2009, when my mortgage was 5 3/8% and HELOCs were 4%. Risk-assets were iffy as heck, coming off the credit crisis. I couldn't get a decent rate on the CDs again, so I paid off my 5 3/8% mortgage with that $100K and another $50K from a no-cost HELOC. It wasn't money that I had earmarked for risk (I.e. -equities). It was like reinvesting the CDs at 5 3/8. Refinancing had costs, and I wasn't looking to do that again. The HELOC I then paid off entirely in less than a year. I wouldn't call that a "huge financial mistake", or even a small one. Any debt eliminated is the same as a FI investment, to my way of thinking. I DCA'd the monthly mortgage payment into equities by raising my 401K contribution substantially, among other things. And as you point out, not all things are about the numbers, some of us do not like debt. And instead of paying interest, to get a tax deduction, I pay none and get a big standard deduction anyhow. That is win/win. I consider my home as a portion of my FI allocations, though many would debate that thinking. Having a paid off home allows me to take additional risk elsewhere. As does having a vested pension and nice future SS payment. And I require less cash assets on-hand. Lots of ways to skin that feline. I never would take out a loan to buy risk assets. LOL - I have to resist the urge to pay off my two 0% interest loans, that I have presently. Of course, taking out a 3% 30-yr mortgage to the maximum amount, a few years back, would have been a great financial move. So, I do get the overall point.
|
|