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Post by richardsok on May 12, 2022 23:41:25 GMT
I did buy a tiny amount of btc on the exchange. I think I used PayPal to buy. I thought the exchange would be less concentrated risk. There are so many digital currencies and at the time Coinbase was the main exchange. I just put ETHE on my watch list. FWIW.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 23:52:47 GMT
Please pipe up when you think it might be a decent bet. Not investment - bet. If they go low enough, I might put some chips on the table.
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Post by bb2 on May 12, 2022 23:57:48 GMT
That makes sense, one step away from BTC. Did you have to upload a photo of your diver's license? I'm having trouble making that step - too paranoid about ID theft.
Edit - oops, a bit out of sequence. Should have used the quote function to show what this was in response to. No matter.
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Post by ignatz on May 13, 2022 6:50:31 GMT
Just took a first time look at forums at bitcointalk dot org. Not surprisingly, the emotions and fear shown in posts there are identical to what you would expect to see on a forum such as this that is devoted to stocks and funds during a major bear market. Including everyone's all-time chestnut "you haven't lost anything if you don't sell".
I had hoped to find a proclamation about "backing up the truck".....No such luck. But I did find "if it falls to zero, I'm buying". Even better.
Of course, they are all fundamentally different than we are.....they are speculators. We are investors. Right?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 9:05:37 GMT
Ignatz - you should school them on allocation and risk tolerance. This asset class has swung wildly since inception. If you can't stand the heat....Why do minerals like gold, silver have the values they do? Why did the people of Yap use stone money as a store of value? Why do runs on banks occur? Why are some currencies stable and some not? Can unstable currencies become stable - Russian ruble for example. Things are changing. We are the old guard. Will and which digital currencies, if any, will become a stable store of value and means of exchange?
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Post by mnfish on May 13, 2022 10:56:41 GMT
Just like in Yap currency, you can only trade Bitcoin with others that have Bitcoin and place a value on it. IMO, the rise of BTC coincides with the rise in a lot of investments (and inflation) the last 2 years. $6T of new money in the hands of a vast majority of people who didn't need it. It appears we are heading towards pre-pandemic levels in many stocks and maybe BTC also. If so, SP500 to 3,500 and BTC to 8,500 (or lower, maybe to the value of a Yap Rai)
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 13:49:03 GMT
I saw that Yap currency in person. BTC is an improvement for portability.
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Post by retiredat48 on May 13, 2022 16:09:37 GMT
@slooow(Sara),...Just for fun, here are some quick replies to these questions
...Why do minerals like gold, silver have the values they do? They have fundamental usage/value in industrial applications, jewelry, and can be taken home and stored. They have cost-to-mine values. All support certain prices.... Why do runs on banks occur? Because banks do not store all the cash or money that is placed there by customers...in fact, very little cash is on hand. Bank runs are to beat the next guy/gal. Why are some currencies stable and some not? There is no such things as a stable currency. There has never in history been a currency that INCREASED in value/price over time. All decline in purchasing power, in the long run. Gold/Silver stay even at best. Currency has never been an investment (albeit one can trade among country currencies, for gain). Can unstable currencies become stable - Russian ruble for example. They can become less volatile. They are stable relative to the dollar for periods like past money agreements (Bretton Woods) that pegged currencies to the dollar. Things are changing. We are the old guard. Will and which digital currencies, if any, will become a stable store of value and means of exchange? Ah, the $64,000 question. I see bitcoin as easily going to both $500,000...and $5. If the latter, could contribute to a potential worldwide financial depression.
Disclosure: Old-guard commentor.
R48 in bold
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2022 12:33:48 GMT
Good writeup on crypto in ValueLine's Selection and Opinion this week. Upshot - speculative but can have a small place in portfolio. Diversify among currencies. BTC has been around since 2009.
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Post by yogibearbull on May 14, 2022 12:42:37 GMT
I was looking for COIN to bottom in $75-85 area but it undershot to around $50. Let us see if that holds, COIN BTCUSD NDX
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Post by yogibearbull on May 15, 2022 12:30:05 GMT
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Post by archer on May 15, 2022 14:13:18 GMT
I think for crypto to become stable it would need to first become the standard (rather than alternative) currency, and cease to be a speculative investment. The USD meets the definition of stable largely because there is consensus as to what it can buy. If one were to create a new paper currency it could easily be as volatile as crypto until it is integrated into the economy in the way the $ is.
There is a bit of which comes first question here. Thousands of years ago, in the early days of any currency, there was perhaps a process of establishing the value the new idea of currency. Some how it had to represent a certain amount of work reasonably equal to what items that work was worthy of in return.
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Post by bb2 on May 15, 2022 19:37:42 GMT
I reread Lyn Alden's bit on why to own bitcoin, which is pretty positive. www.lynalden.com/invest-in-bitcoin/ (Alden seems to have some fans here, as am I.) Then I read some of Yan Pritzker's book on bitcoin, which is available for free on Swan's website. Swan is the exchange Alden recommends for BTC and she she's a board member. It seems to me that Alden's bit on why to own BTC was pretty much just gleaned from Pritzker's book. I won't finish Pritzker's book because it's way too one sided. There's some explanation of the tech but no real depth. So here's some stuff from the skeptics....... I post this piece by Noah Smith because of the comments, where you can find a good amunt of opinion as to why bitcoin and blockchain will never take off. noahpinion.substack.com/p/what-kind-of-financial-asset-is-bitcoin/comments?s=r#comment-6570684A couple links from the comments section: www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/02/blockchain_and_.htmlThis is a slideshow and talk by David Rosenthal, #4 employee at Nvidia, (should have stayed), and long time tech guy. blog.dshr.org/2022/02/ee380-talk.htmlI've put a bunch of time into crypto, interested in the tech as an ex-software person, curiosity and as a possible investment. I started to get drawn into the story a bit but at this point am pulling back. I don't like to gamble. I stink at it. (Though I should have made that $50 bet last Nov that BTC would not go to $100K by Christmas.)
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Post by yogibearbull on May 15, 2022 19:45:36 GMT
I have some Coinbase/COIN that was hit with some bad news (bad earnings report, undeserved hit on inclusion of boilerplate language now required by the SEC). It is a combo exchange-broker/dealer-custodian and should benefit if crypto become more popular. See chart in a prior post.
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Post by bb2 on May 15, 2022 23:25:28 GMT
YBB - that issue with the new language in COIN's filing was discussed in this thread on page 1. All over the financial news from Yahoo to Barrons. Not sure I'd dismiss it as harmless boilerplate.
And when that company reports a 27% drop is sales and a doubling of costs, maybe you'd want to be reminded that your BTC might be lost in a backruptcy.
It's also just a bad market, especially for risky stuff and COIN seems to adding risk lately. Not sure COIN and the SEC are great buddies either.
All that said, COIN is still where I'd probably go first as a stock buy, just because it kills me to pay .99% commish for BTC itself. (Swan is .99%, COIN is 2% I think. You have to pay for all that functionality they have, like lending, etc. They're trying to become a bank. And offering so many coins costs a lot too.)
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Post by bb2 on May 16, 2022 16:02:44 GMT
Just a couple more things. With whales responsible for 2% of accounts and 92% of BTC holdings, you need to know what motives are held by said whales. I'm guessing, for now, that they provide a price floor as they want BTC to live. Also, giving up on BTC as a currency someday, many focus on store of wealth. (So far, not so good.) But comparing BTC to gold, and this may sound silly, I can't discount the effect the beauty of gold must play, something BTC doesn't have. Gold is impossibly heavy. Scrape a gold bar from the bottom of the ocean and it still shines - nothing grows on it. 50% of gold is in the form of jewelry. Here's who owns gold - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_holdingsWho owns BTC? Not sure but it's not governments/banks/institutions. Most by whales. Rest by retail. Edit: Clarify - Intitutions own little relative to gold and BTC whales. They say the reason why BTC correlates to tech is because of institutional ownership. So ownership is small but responsible for a lot of trading volume. And institutional ownership seems to be dropping, so maybe BTC will start to lose that correlation. Wallet creation has hit a plateau recently www.statista.com/statistics/647374/worldwide-blockchain-wallet-users/Volume spikes are interesting www.statista.com/statistics/1272903/cryptocurrency-trade-volume/COIN bonds - 9.9%. 3.6% or so at issue.
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Post by anitya on May 17, 2022 1:47:43 GMT
bb2 , interesting you mentioned COIN bonds. I was going to look them up. Are you looking to buy them? have you looked at convertible bonds?
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Post by anitya on May 17, 2022 17:13:40 GMT
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Post by bb2 on May 17, 2022 19:27:15 GMT
Funny. When I think of a investment bank banker, I see an opportunist, (crook), every time. Lots of pressure to produce money for the boss. Maybe part of why BTC maximalists are who they are. My Wall Street quant buddy left and now crunches sports data from his livingroom. Even more patsies and no boss, he says. Interesting how this happens in Europe, where regs would seem to prevent it. I've not studied it but it seems most of it is in Europe. I'll look into it.
Concerning COIN bonds, no. I'm not a bond guy. (Yet.) Just watch for an additional clue on the equity.
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Post by bb2 on May 17, 2022 19:47:40 GMT
BTW, I started the process to open an account with COIN but didn't complete it. This was maybe 3 weeks ago. Since I've received 3 phishing attempts about something happening in my coinbase account. Funny how the crooks knew I'd been to the coinbase site. Could be coincidence or they know from cookies or someother way. Still, concerning. Another significant risk with owning BTC. Sigh.
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Post by anitya on May 17, 2022 23:30:39 GMT
bb2 , The Allianz fraud was in the US and that forced them out of the US fund business. They own 100% of PIMCO but PIMCO runs on its own without interference from Allianz. HOOD is trying to offer everything COIN offers. If you have an account with HOOD, you may not need a COIN account - I do not have an account at either of those places. More than a year ago, I visited the COIN site and I too got spammed. I just noticed that Yogi has a thread on Allianz fraud at MOFO if you are interested in it.
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Post by bb2 on May 18, 2022 2:04:17 GMT
Emai from Swan. More BS. Subject was : "I've never seen anything like this.."
So yeah, Swan too, is full of BS.. IMHO. Wonder what Lyn waould say to this.....
Hi there, The world around us is changing rapidly. Paradigm shifts in the way we live and work are happening right before our eyes. But most people don't notice... Historically, being early to the next paradigm shift has been the best way to generate wealth. The tricky part is identifying the shift before the masses... Although many smart people already own Bitcoin, the masses haven't realized how big of a deal it really is... These shifts happen fast and even small early investments can yield massive returns 🚀 In the 2000s we saw the rise of social media, the 2010s brought the mobile wave, and the 2020s are all about the Bitcoin revolution. The crazy part? Bitcoin has the potential to generate higher returns than the tech stocks, social media boom, and the mobile wave combined. Owning Bitcoin today is like owning a piece of the Internet. Sure, being an early investor in Apple meant you saw tremendous returns! Bitcoin can be much, much bigger... Imagine buying a piece of the Internet itself in 1995. Not everyone believed in the Internet early on... but the people who invested early and had conviction over the long term were rewarded handsomely. I believe Bitcoin will play out in a similar way, with an important twist. It was not possible to own a piece of the Internet itself. There was no way to capture some of the value from every company built on top of it. But with Bitcoin, you can own a piece of the Internet of Money. The price of Bitcoin benefits from all innovation built on top of it, and from all of the people and companies adopting it. It's no surprise that Bitcoin was the best performing asset of the last decade. And I expect the same for the 2020s... Here at SwanBitcoin.com, we make investing in Bitcoin easy, fast, and safe. Our team loves teaching people about Bitcoin and how to take advantage of the paradigm shift we're living through.
Join the Bitcoin Revolution today
Cheers 🍻 to a bright orange future. Best regards, Cory Klippsten, CEO of SwanBitcoin.com P.S. The big financial institutions are coming to Bitcoin. As this happens the price may explode higher. Take advantage of this opportunity and get in before they do... P.P.S. We're giving away $10 in FREE Bitcoin to everyone who signs up at SwanBitcoin.com/Cory.
Swan Bitcoin does not provide any investment, financial, tax, legal or other professional advice. We recommend that you consult with financial and tax advisors to understand the risks and consequences of buying, selling and holding Bitcoin.
Our mailing address: 26565 West Agoura Rd Calabasas CA 91302
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Post by mnfish on May 19, 2022 11:07:47 GMT
Interesting tidbits - "The New York Times reached out to many of the famous backers, including actors Matt Damon, Reese Witherspoon and Gwyneth Paltrow, as well as basketball star LeBron James, however few responded. Those that did either refused to comment or claimed to not know anything about the technology."
From Sam Bankman-Fried, CEO and founder of FTX a crypto exchange - “The bitcoin network is not a payments network, and it is not a scaling network,” he said. “Things that you’re doing millions of transactions a second with have to be extremely efficient and lightweight, and lower energy cost.”
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Post by bb2 on May 19, 2022 15:08:30 GMT
SBF has often been surprisingly frank. Power consumption, (lack of scale), required computing power, is why etherium moved from proof of work to proof of stake consensus mechanism. BTC is still on POW.
Maybe crypto can evolve to be useful someday - not sure. Takes a lot of SOMETHING to replace trusted institutions and laws, which evolved over many years.
Those lamenting the takeover of bitcoin by institutions, bitcoin dreamers I call them, have work to do to figure out how to replace the Davos crowd. Satoshi had a good design but it needs work.
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Post by archer on May 19, 2022 16:05:09 GMT
SBF has often been surprisingly frank. Power consumption, (lack of scale), required computing power, is why etherium moved from proof of work to proof of stake consensus mechanism. BTC is still on POW. Maybe crypto can evolve to be useful someday - not sure. Takes a lot of SOMETHING to replace trusted institutions and laws, which evolved over many years.
Those lamenting the takeover of bitcoin by institutions, bitcoin dreamers I call them, have work to do to figure out how to replace the Davos crowd. Satoshi had a good design but it needs work. The above in red is very true. The earlier post's email compared crypto with past waves of mobil, social media, and the internet. None of these fully "replaced" anything, or if they did, they did so with a huge advantage. I guess you could say mobil replaced pay phones. Social media replaced having to send hundreds of letters which would have to include photographs. Perhaps internet to large extent, replaced and combined mail, libraries, catalogue commerce and more. But, these developments provided great advantage of a reduction of energy to use. What advantages are there to crypto over conventional currency, given that conventional currency can be exchanged virtually?
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Post by Rexey on May 25, 2022 19:50:52 GMT
If there were a virtual currency pegged to the dollar, then it might actually behave like a virtual currency. Bitcoin has become an investment vehicle, a ponzi scheme. I doubt that it will end well.
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